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	<title>Comments on: CSS includes with the title attribute might be ignored</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 01:55:06 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: BARTdG</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-451490</link>
		<dc:creator>BARTdG</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 05 Oct 2008 18:15:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-451490</guid>
		<description>There are many sites that use alternate stylesheets to fix IE's bug of changing the text size (when it's defined in pixels). You can click a link and the default stylesheet is changed to one with a bigger font-size. I usually use em's, so I didn't need alternate stylesheets.

After this post and Siegfried's article, I just might make some :D</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>There are many sites that use alternate stylesheets to fix <acronym title="Internet Explorer">IE</acronym>&#8217;s bug of changing the text size (when it&#8217;s defined in pixels). You can click a link and the default stylesheet is changed to one with a bigger font-size. I usually use em&#8217;s, so I didn&#8217;t need alternate stylesheets.</p>
<p>After this post and Siegfried&#8217;s article, I just might make some <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_biggrin.gif' alt=':D' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Steven Clark</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-447745</link>
		<dc:creator>Steven Clark</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 03 Oct 2008 08:35:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-447745</guid>
		<description>Actually this behaviour rings a bell, some time ago a similar thing happened to me. I think my solution at the time was to pull the title attributes right out (although I couldn't say for sure), but I never realised or even questioned the foible again until today. 

Thanks for sharing Robert. I hate black boxes, and that was one of them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Actually this behaviour rings a bell, some time ago a similar thing happened to me. I think my solution at the time was to pull the title attributes right out (although I couldn&#8217;t say for sure), but I never realised or even questioned the foible again until today. </p>
<p>Thanks for sharing Robert. I hate black boxes, and that was one of them.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-446874</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 20:07:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-446874</guid>
		<description>food,

As mentioned above, certain web browsers and other plugins offer the end user to switch stylesheets.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>food,</p>
<p>As mentioned above, certain web browsers and other plugins offer the end user to switch stylesheets.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: food</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-446820</link>
		<dc:creator>food</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 02 Oct 2008 19:25:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-446820</guid>
		<description>Why would you use a title on a link tag anyway?

It isn't ever seen by the user, which is why they do make sense on an anchor tag.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would you use a title on a link tag anyway?</p>
<p>It isn&#8217;t ever seen by the user, which is why they do make sense on an anchor tag.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-442560</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 09:51:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-442560</guid>
		<description>Siegfried,

Great! Now, how can I trick you into writing in English instead? :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Siegfried,</p>
<p>Great! Now, how can I trick you into writing in English instead? <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Siegfried</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-442480</link>
		<dc:creator>Siegfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:32:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-442480</guid>
		<description>The article above is from my own blog, in german, and somewhat a HOWTO, using my site as an example. I'm offering several alternate stylesheets. So i have postet an article on how to choose them. Because i think you're right: Most don't know about this feature.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The article above is from my own blog, in german, and somewhat a HOWTO, using my site as an example. I&#8217;m offering several alternate stylesheets. So i have postet an article on how to choose them. Because i think you&#8217;re right: Most don&#8217;t know about this feature.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Alternativen</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-442474</link>
		<dc:creator>Alternativen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 08:27:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-442474</guid>
		<description>[...] Robert Nyman [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Robert Nyman [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-441086</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 29 Sep 2008 10:27:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-441086</guid>
		<description>Deborah,

Good to see that your reaction is akin to mine. :-)

Siegfried,

Yes, first and foremost it would be a nice way to offer the option to the end user, but most don't know about this feature.

Secondly, I think it's a nice way to test custom skins on the same HTML code, possible mobile version etc. So yeah, it's good learning. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Deborah,</p>
<p>Good to see that your reaction is akin to mine. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Siegfried,</p>
<p>Yes, first and foremost it would be a nice way to offer the option to the end user, but most don&#8217;t know about this feature.</p>
<p>Secondly, I think it&#8217;s a nice way to test custom skins on the same <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> code, possible mobile version etc. So yeah, it&#8217;s good learning. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Siegfried</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-437757</link>
		<dc:creator>Siegfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 07:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-437757</guid>
		<description>As far as i know Opera was the first browser to support alternate stylesheets. Today all major browsers support that. And many of the smaller ones, too, All but... well, you may guess which one does not support it :)

I think, alternate stylesheets where basically meant as an accessibility feature. So anyone having difficulties reading a page might choose another stylesheet better suited for his needs. But of course it is possible to add them just for fun, too. Or to experiment with new styles before relaunching a site. F.ex. you might develop the new style as alternate style, then, when everything works, exchange the preferred and the alternate style, and voilá you have relaunched your site without any outtage. And anyone preferring your previous style may choose to use that alternately. Over time you might add a plethora of different styles.

What i have experienced: If you want to add alternate styles, and especially if those alternate styles are very different (f.ex. different geometry), then your HTML has to be 100% free of presentational markup. So building a site with at least 2 very different styles is the perfect way to learn semantic markup :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As far as i know Opera was the first browser to support alternate stylesheets. Today all major browsers support that. And many of the smaller ones, too, All but&#8230; well, you may guess which one does not support it <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>I think, alternate stylesheets where basically meant as an accessibility feature. So anyone having difficulties reading a page might choose another stylesheet better suited for his needs. But of course it is possible to add them just for fun, too. Or to experiment with new styles before relaunching a site. F.ex. you might develop the new style as alternate style, then, when everything works, exchange the preferred and the alternate style, and voilá you have relaunched your site without any outtage. And anyone preferring your previous style may choose to use that alternately. Over time you might add a plethora of different styles.</p>
<p>What i have experienced: If you want to add alternate styles, and especially if those alternate styles are very different (f.ex. different geometry), then your <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> has to be 100% free of presentational markup. So building a site with at least 2 very different styles is the perfect way to learn semantic markup <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Deborah</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-437424</link>
		<dc:creator>Deborah</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 01:54:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-437424</guid>
		<description>Robert,

Very different behavior than what I would expect. 

But then, I had not heard of a "preferred" stylesheet until I read your post.  Thanks for the explanation.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert,</p>
<p>Very different behavior than what I would expect. </p>
<p>But then, I had not heard of a &#8220;preferred&#8221; stylesheet until I read your post.  Thanks for the explanation.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-436602</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 13:43:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-436602</guid>
		<description>Kim, Jens,

As mentioned by other commenters, it's to be able to offer the end user, through certain web browsers and/or plugins, to be able to switch stylesheets. To be honest, though, it was overkill in my case and removing the &lt;code&gt;title&lt;/code&gt; atribute was the way to go.

Siegfrid,

Yes, it does have some logic as well as an element of being unexpected. :-)

Dave,

Didn't actually know it was native in Opera.

Tommy,

Yes, I have experienced it now. :-)
Thanks for the explanation!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kim, Jens,</p>
<p>As mentioned by other commenters, it&#8217;s to be able to offer the end user, through certain web browsers and/or plugins, to be able to switch stylesheets. To be honest, though, it was overkill in my case and removing the <code>title</code> atribute was the way to go.</p>
<p>Siegfrid,</p>
<p>Yes, it does have some logic as well as an element of being unexpected. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Dave,</p>
<p>Didn&#8217;t actually know it was native in Opera.</p>
<p>Tommy,</p>
<p>Yes, I have experienced it now. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Thanks for the explanation!</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Tommy Olsson</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-436439</link>
		<dc:creator>Tommy Olsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 11:33:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-436439</guid>
		<description>This is for alternate style sheets, and it's a feature, not a bug. :)

A style sheet with &lt;code&gt;rel="stylesheet"&lt;/code&gt; and no title is a &lt;em&gt;persistent&lt;/em&gt; style sheet. It will always apply for the specified media types.

A style sheet with &lt;code&gt;rel="stylesheet"&lt;/code&gt; and a title is a &lt;em&gt;preferred&lt;/em&gt; style sheet. It will apply unless the user chooses an alternative style sheet.

A style sheet with &lt;code&gt;rel="alternate stylesheet"&lt;/code&gt; is an &lt;em&gt;alternative&lt;/em&gt; style sheet and will only apply if the user chooses it.

Preferred and alternative style sheets are grouped with the &lt;code&gt;title&lt;/code&gt; attribute. When the user chooses one group all style sheets with that title are enabled and all the others are disabled (except the persistent ones, of course).

Since only one group can be preferred, it's not a good idea to have multiple style sheets with &lt;code&gt;rel="stylesheet"&lt;/code&gt; and &lt;em&gt;different&lt;/em&gt; titles. But you already found that out, didn't you? :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This is for alternate style sheets, and it&#8217;s a feature, not a bug. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>A style sheet with <code>rel="stylesheet"</code> and no title is a <em>persistent</em> style sheet. It will always apply for the specified media types.</p>
<p>A style sheet with <code>rel="stylesheet"</code> and a title is a <em>preferred</em> style sheet. It will apply unless the user chooses an alternative style sheet.</p>
<p>A style sheet with <code>rel="alternate stylesheet"</code> is an <em>alternative</em> style sheet and will only apply if the user chooses it.</p>
<p>Preferred and alternative style sheets are grouped with the <code>title</code> attribute. When the user chooses one group all style sheets with that title are enabled and all the others are disabled (except the persistent ones, of course).</p>
<p>Since only one group can be preferred, it&#8217;s not a good idea to have multiple style sheets with <code>rel="stylesheet"</code> and <em>different</em> titles. But you already found that out, didn&#8217;t you? <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Dave Child</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-436403</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave Child</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:53:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-436403</guid>
		<description>I think the idea is to allow the user to choose from a selection of style sheets where they exist. So the titles could say "added bytes blue" and "added bytes red" and the user would be able to pick one (Opera has this functionality, no idea about other browsers).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think the idea is to allow the user to choose from a selection of style sheets where they exist. So the titles could say &#8220;added bytes blue&#8221; and &#8220;added bytes red&#8221; and the user would be able to pick one (Opera has this functionality, no idea about other browsers).</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Siegfried</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-436380</link>
		<dc:creator>Siegfried</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:35:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-436380</guid>
		<description>Strange indeed. I know that stylesheets linked in with rel="alternate stylesheet" are ignored, but not stylesheets linked in with rel="stylesheet".

I have some of these alternate stylesheets on my web site. Just for fun, nothing important. And indeed here it is essential that those stylesheets are ignored until the user specifically selects one of them. But i always thought this behaviour was limited to rel="alternate stylesheet".

Well, sure, if you offer alternate stylesheets, you should also preset the preferred, or default, stylesheet. This stylesheet then has to have a name to make it selectable by the user. The user may choose to select one of the alternate styles, then later might choose to get back to the default stylesheet. So it has to be selectable by the title.  So it may be a somewhat strange and unexpected behaviour, but it hase some logic.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Strange indeed. I know that stylesheets linked in with rel=&#8221;alternate stylesheet&#8221; are ignored, but not stylesheets linked in with rel=&#8221;stylesheet&#8221;.</p>
<p>I have some of these alternate stylesheets on my web site. Just for fun, nothing important. And indeed here it is essential that those stylesheets are ignored until the user specifically selects one of them. But i always thought this behaviour was limited to rel=&#8221;alternate stylesheet&#8221;.</p>
<p>Well, sure, if you offer alternate stylesheets, you should also preset the preferred, or default, stylesheet. This stylesheet then has to have a name to make it selectable by the user. The user may choose to select one of the alternate styles, then later might choose to get back to the default stylesheet. So it has to be selectable by the title.  So it may be a somewhat strange and unexpected behaviour, but it hase some logic.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Jens Meiert</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-436376</link>
		<dc:creator>Jens Meiert</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:32:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-436376</guid>
		<description>Dto.?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dto.?</p>
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		<title>By: Kim</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/09/26/css-includes-with-the-title-attribute-might-be-ignored/#comment-436372</link>
		<dc:creator>Kim</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 26 Sep 2008 10:30:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=848#comment-436372</guid>
		<description>Why would you want to have a &lt;code&gt;title&lt;/code&gt; attribute in your stylesheet link?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Why would you want to have a <code>title</code> attribute in your stylesheet link?</p>
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