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	<title>Comments on: DOMAssistant 2.7.1 released, future plans and asking for help</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 12:18:05 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-291667</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 02 Jun 2008 18:47:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-291667</guid>
		<description>Chris,

Great! I'll get in touch with you over e-mail!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris,</p>
<p>Great! I&#8217;ll get in touch with you over e-mail!</p>
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		<title>By: Chris Sullins</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-290433</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Sullins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 01 Jun 2008 17:25:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-290433</guid>
		<description>I would be happy to contribute to making the documentation more precise and extensive. How do I get involved?

It'll be about a month before I can contribute in any large way. Right now I'm finishing up a semester studying abroad in the UK.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I would be happy to contribute to making the documentation more precise and extensive. How do I get involved?</p>
<p>It&#8217;ll be about a month before I can contribute in any large way. Right now I&#8217;m finishing up a semester studying abroad in the UK.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-288215</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 08:08:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-288215</guid>
		<description>Tino,

Yes, and that's a bit how DOMAssistant started; just core functions for selecting elements by id, class and attribute. THen it escalated into this CSS selector thing, which I was first a bit skeptical about, but now have come to really appreciate.

Finding tricks or pointing out bugs are both highly appreciated. :-)

Harmen,

Thanks for such thorough comments!
I'd definitely say that the general target audience is people who know JavScript to a certain degree, although I'm sure newcomers would also be well of with very simple and solid ways to select elements, adding events etc.

With extending it, taht was exactly why we introduced plugins, since we believe the core should be small, lean and efficient, and then people themselves chan choose to extend it to suit their own needs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Tino,</p>
<p>Yes, and that&#8217;s a bit how DOMAssistant started; just core functions for selecting elements by id, class and attribute. THen it escalated into this <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> selector thing, which I was first a bit skeptical about, but now have come to really appreciate.</p>
<p>Finding tricks or pointing out bugs are both highly appreciated. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Harmen,</p>
<p>Thanks for such thorough comments!<br />
I&#8217;d definitely say that the general target audience is people who know JavScript to a certain degree, although I&#8217;m sure newcomers would also be well of with very simple and solid ways to select elements, adding events etc.</p>
<p>With extending it, taht was exactly why we introduced plugins, since we believe the core should be small, lean and efficient, and then people themselves chan choose to extend it to suit their own needs.</p>
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		<title>By: Harmen Janssen</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-288199</link>
		<dc:creator>Harmen Janssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 07:53:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-288199</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;The obvious follow-up question, of course, is: how can we persuade to use DOMAssistant, at least in some cases? :-)&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I think that depends on your target audience. 
If you want complete newbies to be able to simply add Javascripts to their websites, I guess you have to provide lots of "Accordion menu's", transitions, etc. Just some out-of-the-box-cool-stuff. Newbies like hot air ;).

If your target audience consists more of Javascript veterans, than I think you're on the right track. People who know the ins and outs of Javascript just wish to be helped a little. They already know Javascript is capable of doing cool stuff, so they don't need to be convinced with sparkles and pretty lights. I think these users are primarily looking for a library with awesome performance and a tiny filesize. These users wish to write their own scripts and a library should make things easy for them, not be in the way. 

I think at the moment, your library is aimed more towards the veteran group (which is a Good Thing, 'cause there's already a lot out there aimed at wowing newbies, think Scriptaculous). 

Another thing you could use to persuade, is just fixing really complex things, that even veterans won't take the time for to develop for any random project. I, personally, am still looking for a decent, cross-browser rich text editor for my clients. 
Then you can offer such scripts as bundles, backed up by the DOMAssistant core. Making such "standalone" scripts extensible, or even just scriptable, will also make people familiar with DOMAssistant. If they then like the syntax they might continue to use DOMAssistant for future projects.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>The obvious follow-up question, of course, is: how can we persuade to use DOMAssistant, at least in some cases? <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p></blockquote>
<p>I think that depends on your target audience.<br />
If you want complete newbies to be able to simply add Javascripts to their websites, I guess you have to provide lots of &#8220;Accordion menu&#8217;s&#8221;, transitions, etc. Just some out-of-the-box-cool-stuff. Newbies like hot air ;).</p>
<p>If your target audience consists more of Javascript veterans, than I think you&#8217;re on the right track. People who know the ins and outs of Javascript just wish to be helped a little. They already know Javascript is capable of doing cool stuff, so they don&#8217;t need to be convinced with sparkles and pretty lights. I think these users are primarily looking for a library with awesome performance and a tiny filesize. These users wish to write their own scripts and a library should make things easy for them, not be in the way. </p>
<p>I think at the moment, your library is aimed more towards the veteran group (which is a Good Thing, &#8217;cause there&#8217;s already a lot out there aimed at wowing newbies, think Scriptaculous). </p>
<p>Another thing you could use to persuade, is just fixing really complex things, that even veterans won&#8217;t take the time for to develop for any random project. I, personally, am still looking for a decent, cross-browser rich text editor for my clients.<br />
Then you can offer such scripts as bundles, backed up by the DOMAssistant core. Making such &#8220;standalone&#8221; scripts extensible, or even just scriptable, will also make people familiar with DOMAssistant. If they then like the syntax they might continue to use DOMAssistant for future projects.</p>
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		<title>By: Tino Zijdel</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287825</link>
		<dc:creator>Tino Zijdel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 May 2008 00:04:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287825</guid>
		<description>I exclusively use my own toolkit. I never really have the need for full CSS-like selector-syntax to pick elements from the DOM. I have full control over the generated markup and gEBID and (my own ;)) gEBCN mostly suit just fine.

I do however take a great interest in JS-libraries, either to pick up some nifty tricks myself or to point out bugs and suggest improvements :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I exclusively use my own toolkit. I never really have the need for full <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym>-like selector-syntax to pick elements from the <acronym title="Document Object Model">DOM</acronym>. I have full control over the generated markup and gEBID and (my own ;)) gEBCN mostly suit just fine.</p>
<p>I do however take a great interest in JS-libraries, either to pick up some nifty tricks myself or to point out bugs and suggest improvements <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287491</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 17:35:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287491</guid>
		<description>Thanks for sharing guys!

Olly, Andreas and Harmen,

The obvious follow-up question, of course, is: how can we persuade to use DOMAssistant, at least in some cases? :-)

Chris,

It makes me happy to hear that you're using DOMAssistant! And about what should be included in the core of a JavaScript library, we're definitely on the same page.

A &lt;code&gt;last&lt;/code&gt; method could be nice, and I don't see why we couldn't add it in a future version.

With event handlers for other ready states, that is unfortunately not possible at the moment. With AJAX, you can make as many parallel AJAX calls as possible, but &lt;code&gt;getReadyState&lt;/code&gt; only returns the value for the latest call.

In regards to the documentation, I agree that some points arent really clear, and in the long run, we would definitely try to make it better and more clear. Are you interested in contributing to making it more precise?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for sharing guys!</p>
<p>Olly, Andreas and Harmen,</p>
<p>The obvious follow-up question, of course, is: how can we persuade to use DOMAssistant, at least in some cases? <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Chris,</p>
<p>It makes me happy to hear that you&#8217;re using DOMAssistant! And about what should be included in the core of a JavaScript library, we&#8217;re definitely on the same page.</p>
<p>A <code>last</code> method could be nice, and I don&#8217;t see why we couldn&#8217;t add it in a future version.</p>
<p>With event handlers for other ready states, that is unfortunately not possible at the moment. With <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>, you can make as many parallel <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> calls as possible, but <code>getReadyState</code> only returns the value for the latest call.</p>
<p>In regards to the documentation, I agree that some points arent really clear, and in the long run, we would definitely try to make it better and more clear. Are you interested in contributing to making it more precise?</p>
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		<title>By: Harmen Janssen</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287332</link>
		<dc:creator>Harmen Janssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 14:30:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287332</guid>
		<description>As you know, Robert, I use a custom little thingy which handles most of what I want, plus a little extra (animations, drag/drop, auto-complete, that sort of thing).

I've tried Prototype a year ago, mostly to learn from, but at the time I thought it was bloated. 
I've also used YUI some time ago back when YUI was the only respectable framework, to solve the drag and drop needs of a client.

Overall I've never really used a framework for more than a couple of pages that required specific functionality which I didn't have handy myself at the time.

By developing my own library code I've been able to clearly state my preferences;

a consistent interface (example: if all your objects or classes have an &lt;code&gt;init ()&lt;/code&gt; method, don't suddenly use &lt;code&gt;setup ()&lt;/code&gt; for one module)
custom event handlers rock. (example:
&lt;code&gt;var ajax = new Namespace.AJAX ();
ajax.onReady = function () {
 alert (this.response);
};&lt;/code&gt;
They mostly rock because it's such a familiar system. Everyone with even the slightest bit of Javascript experience knows &lt;code&gt;element.onclick = function () {}&lt;/code&gt;.
Being able to extend classes rocks as well. Also, having a good subclassing system is the best way to guarantee consistency.
A tiny file-size! (but I believe you've already got that covered ;))

All in all I think you're doing great work, especially filesize- and performance-wise. 
To think a couple of months ago you weren't sure if DOMAssistant was a successful project... man, that's just crazy talk! ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As you know, Robert, I use a custom little thingy which handles most of what I want, plus a little extra (animations, drag/drop, auto-complete, that sort of thing).</p>
<p>I&#8217;ve tried Prototype a year ago, mostly to learn from, but at the time I thought it was bloated.<br />
I&#8217;ve also used YUI some time ago back when YUI was the only respectable framework, to solve the drag and drop needs of a client.</p>
<p>Overall I&#8217;ve never really used a framework for more than a couple of pages that required specific functionality which I didn&#8217;t have handy myself at the time.</p>
<p>By developing my own library code I&#8217;ve been able to clearly state my preferences;</p>
<p>a consistent interface (example: if all your objects or classes have an <code>init ()</code> method, don&#8217;t suddenly use <code>setup ()</code> for one module)<br />
custom event handlers rock. (example:<br />
<code>var <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> = new Namespace.AJAX ();<br />
<acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>.onReady = function () {<br />
 alert (this.response);<br />
};</code><br />
They mostly rock because it&#8217;s such a familiar system. Everyone with even the slightest bit of Javascript experience knows <code>element.onclick = function () {}</code>.<br />
Being able to extend classes rocks as well. Also, having a good subclassing system is the best way to guarantee consistency.<br />
A tiny file-size! (but I believe you&#8217;ve already got that covered ;))</p>
<p>All in all I think you&#8217;re doing great work, especially filesize- and performance-wise.<br />
To think a couple of months ago you weren&#8217;t sure if DOMAssistant was a successful project&#8230; man, that&#8217;s just crazy talk! <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Chris Sullins</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287301</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris Sullins</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 14:13:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287301</guid>
		<description>I've tried Prototype, but only actually use DOMAssistant. Mostly because I don't want all the additional draggable/transition functionality that comes with other libraries. As a library gets larger, I get less interested.

How about a last() function to go along with the first() function?

In the AJAX module, can you define event handlers for other ready states?

I find that the documentation, while good, sometimes is not precise enough. I end up doing testing to figure out &lt;em&gt;exactly&lt;/em&gt; what is going on. For example, you have a function &lt;code&gt;DOMAssistant.AJAX.getReadyState()&lt;/code&gt;. I assume it doesn't mean that only one AJAX call can be made at a time? Can the function only retrieve the state for the last AJAX call?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;ve tried Prototype, but only actually use DOMAssistant. Mostly because I don&#8217;t want all the additional draggable/transition functionality that comes with other libraries. As a library gets larger, I get less interested.</p>
<p>How about a last() function to go along with the first() function?</p>
<p>In the <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> module, can you define event handlers for other ready states?</p>
<p>I find that the documentation, while good, sometimes is not precise enough. I end up doing testing to figure out <em>exactly</em> what is going on. For example, you have a function <code>DOMAssistant.AJAX.getReadyState()</code>. I assume it doesn&#8217;t mean that only one <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> call can be made at a time? Can the function only retrieve the state for the last <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> call?</p>
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		<title>By: Andreas</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287120</link>
		<dc:creator>Andreas</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 May 2008 10:20:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-287120</guid>
		<description>I use jQuery and jQuery alone. I want the same things as Olly, speed, simplicity, cool features and cross-browser support.

Every time I read a post DOMAssistant I wanna try it out. Never get around to it though.

How similar is it to jQuery? From what I've seen they look almost identical? Perhaps converting my jQ-plugins to DA wouldn't be too much work...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use jQuery and jQuery alone. I want the same things as Olly, speed, simplicity, cool features and cross-browser support.</p>
<p>Every time I read a post DOMAssistant I wanna try it out. Never get around to it though.</p>
<p>How similar is it to jQuery? From what I&#8217;ve seen they look almost identical? Perhaps converting my jQ-plugins to DA wouldn&#8217;t be too much work&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Olly</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-286546</link>
		<dc:creator>Olly</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 28 May 2008 21:37:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/28/domassistant-271-released-future-plans-and-asking-for-help/#comment-286546</guid>
		<description>I use jQuery at the moment. 

What I want from a library? All the usual stuff. Simplicity, decent documentation, a nice selection of features, a vibrant community.

Most importantly though, it needs to be faster than light, if not quicker :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I use jQuery at the moment. </p>
<p>What I want from a library? All the usual stuff. Simplicity, decent documentation, a nice selection of features, a vibrant community.</p>
<p>Most importantly though, it needs to be faster than light, if not quicker <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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