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	<title>Comments on: How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available</title>
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	<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 20 Nov 2008 14:37:41 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Knowledge Base - .NET, C#, SQL Server 2005, PHP and Actionscript 2.0 / 3.0 etc &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#187; Hiding and showing initial content with JavaScript</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-466301</link>
		<dc:creator>Knowledge Base - .NET, C#, SQL Server 2005, PHP and Actionscript 2.0 / 3.0 etc &#187; Blog Archive &#187; &#187; Hiding and showing initial content with JavaScript</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 20 Oct 2008 16:18:37 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Hiding and showing initial content with JavaScript  Category: Uncategorized    http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-java... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Hiding and showing initial content with JavaScript  Category: Uncategorized    <a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-java.." rel="nofollow">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-java..</a>. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: H. Kurth Bemis &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-09-30</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-443846</link>
		<dc:creator>H. Kurth Bemis &#187; Blog Archive &#187; links for 2008-09-30</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 01 Oct 2008 02:31:24 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert?... (tags: reference howto tips code) [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert?&#8230; (tags: reference howto tips code) [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Avoiding The Flicker : mnavasca.ca</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-443340</link>
		<dc:creator>Avoiding The Flicker : mnavasca.ca</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 30 Sep 2008 20:19:23 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] Anyways here&#8217;s the hack / fix that I found: [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Anyways here&#8217;s the hack / fix that I found: [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Mixx&#8217;s Engine Room &#187; Hiding content, accessibility, and the onload problem</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-420942</link>
		<dc:creator>Mixx&#8217;s Engine Room &#187; Hiding content, accessibility, and the onload problem</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Sep 2008 13:27:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-420942</guid>
		<description>[...] Nyman, in his post How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available, outlines a technique where you add a &#60;script&#62; element to the &#60;head&#62; of your document [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Nyman, in his post How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available, outlines a technique where you add a &lt;script&gt; element to the &lt;head&gt; of your document [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: dv</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-307586</link>
		<dc:creator>dv</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 18 Jun 2008 08:33:06 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>&#60;div id="hide-with-script" style="display:none;"&#62;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&lt;div id=&#8221;hide-with-script&#8221; style=&#8221;display:none;&#8221;&gt;</p>
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		<title>By: FreePress Blog &#187; Link - How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert’s talk - Web development and Internet trends</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-302107</link>
		<dc:creator>FreePress Blog &#187; Link - How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert’s talk - Web development and Internet trends</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 13 Jun 2008 04:49:07 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert?... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert?&#8230; [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Summer break - Robert&#8217;s talk - Web development and Internet trends</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-301963</link>
		<dc:creator>Summer break - Robert&#8217;s talk - Web development and Internet trends</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:17:30 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available [...]</p>
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		<title>By: XMLRPC Test &#187; Link - How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert’s talk - Web development and Internet trends</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-289558</link>
		<dc:creator>XMLRPC Test &#187; Link - How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert’s talk - Web development and Internet trends</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 31 May 2008 19:15:01 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert?... [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] How to hide and show initial content, depending on whether JavaScript support is available - Robert?&#8230; [...]</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-283754</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 26 May 2008 07:47:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-283754</guid>
		<description>mike,

Thanks for sharing!
&lt;a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-272957" rel="nofollow"&gt;Ole was mentioning this above&lt;/a&gt; as well, but to my knowledge, it's not valid to add properties to the HTML element itself.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>mike,</p>
<p>Thanks for sharing!<br />
<a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-272957" rel="nofollow">Ole was mentioning this above</a> as well, but to my knowledge, it&#8217;s not valid to add properties to the <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> element itself.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: mike foskett</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-282946</link>
		<dc:creator>mike foskett</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 25 May 2008 10:58:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-282946</guid>
		<description>Hi Rob,

Nice article, here's one more varient to add to the mix:
&lt;code&gt;&#60;script type="text/javascript"&#62;/*&#60;![CDATA[*/
document.documentElement.className="hasJS";
/*]]&#62;*/&#60;/script&#62;&lt;/code&gt;

Placed straight after the title element, it adds the class .hasJS to the html element (valid grammatically but cannot have properties).
So does not interfere with body element at all.

I sometimes add an extra variable which is set server-side:
&lt;code&gt;var ajaxOn=true;&lt;/code&gt;
Which may be switched via a content link for accessibility. 

Example: &lt;a href="http://websemantics.co.uk/" rel="nofollow"&gt;webSemantics&lt;/a&gt;</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Rob,</p>
<p>Nice article, here&#8217;s one more varient to add to the mix:<br />
<code>&lt;script type="text/javascript"&gt;/*&lt;![CDATA[*/<br />
document.documentElement.className="hasJS";<br />
/*]]&gt;*/&lt;/script&gt;</code></p>
<p>Placed straight after the title element, it adds the class .hasJS to the <acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym> element (valid grammatically but cannot have properties).<br />
So does not interfere with body element at all.</p>
<p>I sometimes add an extra variable which is set server-side:<br />
<code>var ajaxOn=true;</code><br />
Which may be switched via a content link for accessibility. </p>
<p>Example: <a href="http://websemantics.co.uk/" rel="nofollow">webSemantics</a></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-281211</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 14:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-281211</guid>
		<description>Ian,

It's a good point about screen readers. Unfortunately I don't have access to proper screen reader testing opportunities at the moment either, but I had a friend do brief tests for me.

The result can, most likely, vary from screen reader to screen reader, but a recommended alternative CSS approach to avoid having content not being read is using:

&lt;code&gt;position: absolute; 
left: -999px;&lt;/code&gt;

instead of

&lt;code&gt;display: none;&lt;/code&gt;

Then, have your script change the value to:

&lt;code&gt;position: static; 
left: 0;&lt;/code&gt;

when showing the element.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ian,</p>
<p>It&#8217;s a good point about screen readers. Unfortunately I don&#8217;t have access to proper screen reader testing opportunities at the moment either, but I had a friend do brief tests for me.</p>
<p>The result can, most likely, vary from screen reader to screen reader, but a recommended alternative <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> approach to avoid having content not being read is using:</p>
<p><code>position: absolute;<br />
left: -999px;</code></p>
<p>instead of</p>
<p><code>display: none;</code></p>
<p>Then, have your script change the value to:</p>
<p><code>position: static;<br />
left: 0;</code></p>
<p>when showing the element.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Ian Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-281178</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 13:39:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-281178</guid>
		<description>Just to clarify my comment 'Why is this important?' ... I meant 'Why is it important [that I was searching for this]' rather than 'Why is this [your technique] important?'. Just re-read it and thought that might not have come across quite as clearly as I hoped :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Just to clarify my comment &#8216;Why is this important?&#8217; &#8230; I meant &#8216;Why is it important [that I was searching for this]&#8216; rather than &#8216;Why is this [your technique] important?&#8217;. Just re-read it and thought that might not have come across quite as clearly as I hoped <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Ian Lloyd</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-281169</link>
		<dc:creator>Ian Lloyd</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 23 May 2008 13:33:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-281169</guid>
		<description>Hi Robert,

Just heard about this technique on Boagworld and came to investigate. I've looked through the comments and search for any mention of screen readers and didn't find anything. Why is this important?

My understanding about why people opt for the 'display content by default, hide afterwards with JavaScript ' technique is not *just* about providing something for non-JS capable users, but also for people with assistive tech. 

If the page loads and has content hidden with CSS, the screen reader (to use the typical example of assistive technique) does not get to 'see' all the content and therefore cannot then be relayed to the user; using the 'show by default then hide it on page load' technique gets around that problem - the assistive tech gets to 'see' the whole page and can relay that information accordingly, even if it is subsequently hidden on screen.

Now, I can see what you've done here - you're using JavaScript at what seems like a good point in the page load process to load the additional hide styles to avoid the flash, but I suspect that this will then make any of that content invisible to assistive tech users. I say *suspect* as I'm not able to test that theory out as I type this (at work, no screen reader available on this machine).

Could you look into that aspect of the technique? If it does present accessibility issues, then a note of warning should be applied.

Thanks :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Robert,</p>
<p>Just heard about this technique on Boagworld and came to investigate. I&#8217;ve looked through the comments and search for any mention of screen readers and didn&#8217;t find anything. Why is this important?</p>
<p>My understanding about why people opt for the &#8216;display content by default, hide afterwards with JavaScript &#8216; technique is not *just* about providing something for non-JS capable users, but also for people with assistive tech. </p>
<p>If the page loads and has content hidden with <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym>, the screen reader (to use the typical example of assistive technique) does not get to &#8217;see&#8217; all the content and therefore cannot then be relayed to the user; using the &#8217;show by default then hide it on page load&#8217; technique gets around that problem - the assistive tech gets to &#8217;see&#8217; the whole page and can relay that information accordingly, even if it is subsequently hidden on screen.</p>
<p>Now, I can see what you&#8217;ve done here - you&#8217;re using JavaScript at what seems like a good point in the page load process to load the additional hide styles to avoid the flash, but I suspect that this will then make any of that content invisible to assistive tech users. I say *suspect* as I&#8217;m not able to test that theory out as I type this (at work, no screen reader available on this machine).</p>
<p>Could you look into that aspect of the technique? If it does present accessibility issues, then a note of warning should be applied.</p>
<p>Thanks <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-277055</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 19 May 2008 07:54:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-277055</guid>
		<description>Stefan,

Yes, it's always good to have an option. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stefan,</p>
<p>Yes, it&#8217;s always good to have an option. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stefan Van Reeth</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-275051</link>
		<dc:creator>Stefan Van Reeth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 20:34:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-275051</guid>
		<description>Cool idea Robert, presented in a clear compact form as ever. Never gave this a thought. But then again, I mostly work on intranet apps and there it isn't priority no 1. Still, it would (or better: will) serve great as a fallback for just in case...

Greetings, Stefan</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Cool idea Robert, presented in a clear compact form as ever. Never gave this a thought. But then again, I mostly work on intranet apps and there it isn&#8217;t priority no 1. Still, it would (or better: will) serve great as a fallback for just in case&#8230;</p>
<p>Greetings, Stefan</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274868</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 15:18:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274868</guid>
		<description>Mats,

Yep, always use the right tool for the job. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mats,</p>
<p>Yep, always use the right tool for the job. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mats Lindblad</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274751</link>
		<dc:creator>Mats Lindblad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 11:44:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274751</guid>
		<description>Yes, I have a mental image of Benny Hill and a blackboard ... ;) (ass)(u)(me)

I haven't tried but I just realized that it will only work for Effects ... P6Y's Element.hide/show doesn't use callbacks.

But then again why use P6Y for such simple operations. ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I have a mental image of Benny Hill and a blackboard &#8230; <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> (ass)(u)(me)</p>
<p>I haven&#8217;t tried but I just realized that it will only work for Effects &#8230; P6Y&#8217;s Element.hide/show doesn&#8217;t use callbacks.</p>
<p>But then again why use P6Y for such simple operations. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274671</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 09:11:47 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274671</guid>
		<description>Mats,

Well, you know what they say about assumptions, right? :-)
But yes, if that's the case, you need to set the &lt;code&gt;className&lt;/code&gt; or something similar before calling the actual effect then.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Mats,</p>
<p>Well, you know what they say about assumptions, right? <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
But yes, if that&#8217;s the case, you need to set the <code>className</code> or something similar before calling the actual effect then.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Mats Lindblad</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274653</link>
		<dc:creator>Mats Lindblad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 08:47:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274653</guid>
		<description>But if you do it that way you can't use Prototypes och Scriptacoulus effects since they assume that the element is visible without the style property. Setting a className in "beforeStart" might work though ...
I'll have to try.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>But if you do it that way you can&#8217;t use Prototypes och Scriptacoulus effects since they assume that the element is visible without the style property. Setting a className in &#8220;beforeStart&#8221; might work though &#8230;<br />
I&#8217;ll have to try.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274583</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 16 May 2008 06:49:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/05/13/how-to-hide-and-show-initial-content-depending-on-whether-javascript-support-is-available/#comment-274583</guid>
		<description>Adam,

No, the way it works is that it will read in the extra CSS file, through JavaScript, before the &lt;code&gt;body&lt;/code&gt; has even started loading.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Adam,</p>
<p>No, the way it works is that it will read in the extra <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> file, through JavaScript, before the <code>body</code> has even started loading.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
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