Comments on: Interface Developers have to be available from start to end in a project (and work with real live code) http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/ Web development and Internet trends Thu, 20 Nov 2008 11:45:41 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Summer break - Robert’s talk - Web development and Internet trends http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-301962 Summer break - Robert’s talk - Web development and Internet trends Thu, 12 Jun 2008 23:17:12 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-301962 [...] Interface Developers have to be available from start to end in a project (and work with real live co... [...] [...] Interface Developers have to be available from start to end in a project (and work with real live co… [...]

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255773 Robert Nyman Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:32:55 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255773 Ceriak, Ha ha! :-) Well, I believe developers and designers really have to be more versatile and work together, rather than doing their thing behind closed doors, to achieve the best results. Ceriak,

Ha ha! :-)
Well, I believe developers and designers really have to be more versatile and work together, rather than doing their thing behind closed doors, to achieve the best results.

]]> By: Ceriak http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255763 Ceriak Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:15:23 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255763 And then the multifunctional designer-interfacedeveloper-systemdeveloper web programmer has born. And then died in heart attack. And then the multifunctional designer-interfacedeveloper-systemdeveloper web programmer has born.
And then died in heart attack.

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255761 Robert Nyman Wed, 23 Apr 2008 20:05:38 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255761 I'm glad to see that you agree with me! I'm amazed to see this lack of understanding in so many places, and the failed results and wasted money because of it. Dan, On the contrary, thanks for a long comment and I'm very glad to hear that you liked the post! I’m glad to see that you agree with me! I’m amazed to see this lack of understanding in so many places, and the failed results and wasted money because of it.

Dan,

On the contrary, thanks for a long comment and I’m very glad to hear that you liked the post!

]]> By: Joshua Rudd http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255683 Joshua Rudd Wed, 23 Apr 2008 16:50:42 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255683 Great post, Robert. As someone who weaves in and out of all three of those roles, I agree that there needs to be some continuity and quality-control throughout the process of designing and developing websites. All too often when a client only wants "Photoshop layers" or "HTML templates", the end result is no where near the designer/front-end developer's original spec. Even so, an interface disconnected from the interaction (and likewise disconnected from the server-side logic) rarely ends in a holistic experience. But the reality is that oftentimes budgets and timelines don't allow for this continuity; clients don't buy into the cost vs. quality, or they believe their in-house developers will suffice (when oftentimes they just don't give a shit and/or have to meet unrealistic deadlines). Still, there is a better way and I hope, in time, that clients will more and more "get it". Great post, Robert. As someone who weaves in and out of all three of those roles, I agree that there needs to be some continuity and quality-control throughout the process of designing and developing websites.

All too often when a client only wants “Photoshop layers” or “HTML templates”, the end result is no where near the designer/front-end developer’s original spec. Even so, an interface disconnected from the interaction (and likewise disconnected from the server-side logic) rarely ends in a holistic experience.

But the reality is that oftentimes budgets and timelines don’t allow for this continuity; clients don’t buy into the cost vs. quality, or they believe their in-house developers will suffice (when oftentimes they just don’t give a shit and/or have to meet unrealistic deadlines).

Still, there is a better way and I hope, in time, that clients will more and more “get it”.

]]> By: Anders Ytterström http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255405 Anders Ytterström Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:39:40 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255405 What scares me is that many developers out there don't even consider design, interface and system to be three different parts. They actually believe they can handle all three just fine on their own. I've heard interface developers say "I suck at design", designers said "Divs does not work, bring on the tables" and seen system developers spit out HTML and CSS as some last minute polish. There are actually three strengths here, three phases of production, which must be respected equally and be handled by "the right man for the right job", or it will be become a weakness instead. Great blog, Robert! What scares me is that many developers out there don’t even consider design, interface and system to be three different parts. They actually believe they can handle all three just fine on their own.

I’ve heard interface developers say “I suck at design”, designers said “Divs does not work, bring on the tables” and seen system developers spit out HTML and CSS as some last minute polish.

There are actually three strengths here, three phases of production, which must be respected equally and be handled by “the right man for the right job”, or it will be become a weakness instead.

Great blog, Robert!

]]> By: Lennart http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255389 Lennart Wed, 23 Apr 2008 07:09:51 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255389 The recently launched new booking at sj.se is a perfect example of what your are trying to say with this blog post. Its a scandal. The recently launched new booking at sj.se is a perfect example of what your are trying to say with this blog post. Its a scandal.

]]> By: Dan Shields http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255224 Dan Shields Wed, 23 Apr 2008 00:56:57 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255224 Robert, I couldn't of said it better myself. This was always my biggest annoyance of freelance/contract work. For a while there when I got out of school I had made a little name for my self around my town for being a good HTML/CSS guy for the local web firms. Most of the time they would send me work when they had to much of it and needed someone they could depend on. I would slice up their work spend hours making the code as semantic, valid and browser compatible as I could. In turn would hand it back over to the web firm to do the integration and almost always the code came up looking pretty bad, because most software engineers don't care or know about the standards we try to adhere to and a lot, not all brush HTML/CSS off as kids play. I never had a site that looked as good as I coded it when it went live, it took me a while but I came to the conclusion that it was always going to be like that so not to be so disappointed if the sites in my portfolio were not representing how I truly intended the code to be. I did a small contract stint with a major ecommerce firm working inside of their platform. It was my first time working in a Java environment and I have to tell you it made my work that much more enjoyable even though the standards were not the best. I really can't see why anyone would just want to do HTML templates and hand them over. I think you really cross the line into a real developer when you have to work with HTML and CSS in a large scale web application, having to work inside of the guts of the site. I now work at another ecommerce company where I work with the same Java platform and get to work 5-10 feet away from the designers and other engineers, its really a great way to work and we all learn from each other. I think once you master one thing if your truly passionate about your career you want to make your job challenge you. So why once you "Master" HTML and CSS why would you want to just limit yourself to that. I am now considered a software engineer at my job and its a blast because I can now have all my HTML render the way I want it to from all the different types of iterators and what not. People don't want to obtain new skills and continually move ahead in their career are people that aren't truly passionate about what they do. sorry for the lengthy comment but it really hit home for me!! Great post :) Robert, I couldn’t of said it better myself. This was always my biggest annoyance of freelance/contract work. For a while there when I got out of school I had made a little name for my self around my town for being a good HTML/CSS guy for the local web firms. Most of the time they would send me work when they had to much of it and needed someone they could depend on. I would slice up their work spend hours making the code as semantic, valid and browser compatible as I could.

In turn would hand it back over to the web firm to do the integration and almost always the code came up looking pretty bad, because most software engineers don’t care or know about the standards we try to adhere to and a lot, not all brush HTML/CSS off as kids play. I never had a site that looked as good as I coded it when it went live, it took me a while but I came to the conclusion that it was always going to be like that so not to be so disappointed if the sites in my portfolio were not representing how I truly intended the code to be.

I did a small contract stint with a major ecommerce firm working inside of their platform. It was my first time working in a Java environment and I have to tell you it made my work that much more enjoyable even though the standards were not the best. I really can’t see why anyone would just want to do HTML templates and hand them over. I think you really cross the line into a real developer when you have to work with HTML and CSS in a large scale web application, having to work inside of the guts of the site.

I now work at another ecommerce company where I work with the same Java platform and get to work 5-10 feet away from the designers and other engineers, its really a great way to work and we all learn from each other. I think once you master one thing if your truly passionate about your career you want to make your job challenge you. So why once you “Master” HTML and CSS why would you want to just limit yourself to that. I am now considered a software engineer at my job and its a blast because I can now have all my HTML render the way I want it to from all the different types of iterators and what not. People don’t want to obtain new skills and continually move ahead in their career are people that aren’t truly passionate about what they do.

sorry for the lengthy comment but it really hit home for me!! Great post :)

]]> By: Georges Jentgeb http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255190 Georges Jentgeb Tue, 22 Apr 2008 23:48:02 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/04/23/interface-developers-have-to-be-available-from-start-to-end-in-a-project-and-work-with-real-live-code/#comment-255190 I believe that a good web-developer should always know about design, interface and backend development. Even if it's ok to be "gifted" in only one part, you should always know about the rest. And therefor always be involved in the entire process of the development. I think it's very hard to seperate those few parts strictly apart, as there is no real, straight, seperation going on! Unlike desktop application developement... Maybe we got that issue because we initially thought that webdev is just similar to appdev! It's good to point that out, as a lot of companies don't get it yet... I believe that a good web-developer should always know about design, interface and backend development. Even if it’s ok to be “gifted” in only one part, you should always know about the rest. And therefor always be involved in the entire process of the development.

I think it’s very hard to seperate those few parts strictly apart, as there is no real, straight, seperation going on! Unlike desktop application developement…

Maybe we got that issue because we initially thought that webdev is just similar to appdev! It’s good to point that out, as a lot of companies don’t get it yet…

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