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	<title>Comments on: DOMAssistant news - New plugins, TextMate bundle and ten times faster than the competitors in IE 8</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:27:50 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228379</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:07:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228379</guid>
		<description>Andrea,

No problem; on the contrary, I did want to know more! :-)
Thanks for the explanation, it sounds great!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrea,</p>
<p>No problem; on the contrary, I did want to know more! <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Thanks for the explanation, it sounds great!</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Giammarchi</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228377</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Giammarchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 09:02:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228377</guid>
		<description>packed.it has nothing to do with both Dean's Packer and Douglas JSMin ... but obviously it's inspired by both projects.
The minifier does not use regexp, it's a char by char parser more compatible than JSMin (function(){return /re/;} is an example of one of JSMin problems) .
The client compression is an optional, but in this case, the algo to decompress the code is so simple, and for this reason widely compatible (more than one developer told me that packed.it successfully parsed files that Dean's packer was not able to do).

However, this is totally different from Dean's one, and I think his algo is able to create more compact results (I focused more on compatibility with "strange" code) ... anyway, what's packed.it can do, and no other compressors can yet, is to produce a single file merging both JS and CSS that will use the same keywords list (think about div.classname {} in CSS and the usage of "div" or div and getElementsByClassName("className") in JS ... these words are both from a single list).

This simply means than in a single file you can serve entire libraries and their dedicated CSS, while JS not comaptible or disable browsers will download only one or more basic CSS (try to disable JS in packed.it and look what do you download when you have JS enabled and what's different when JS is disabled).

Sorry Robert, I know this is not the right place to talk about packed.it ... but hey, it was your fault, you asked? I replied :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>packed.it has nothing to do with both Dean&#8217;s Packer and Douglas JSMin &#8230; but obviously it&#8217;s inspired by both projects.<br />
The minifier does not use regexp, it&#8217;s a char by char parser more compatible than JSMin (function(){return /re/;} is an example of one of JSMin problems) .<br />
The client compression is an optional, but in this case, the algo to decompress the code is so simple, and for this reason widely compatible (more than one developer told me that packed.it successfully parsed files that Dean&#8217;s packer was not able to do).</p>
<p>However, this is totally different from Dean&#8217;s one, and I think his algo is able to create more compact results (I focused more on compatibility with &#8220;strange&#8221; code) &#8230; anyway, what&#8217;s packed.it can do, and no other compressors can yet, is to produce a single file merging both JS and <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> that will use the same keywords list (think about div.classname {} in <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> and the usage of &#8220;div&#8221; or div and getElementsByClassName(&#8221;className&#8221;) in JS &#8230; these words are both from a single list).</p>
<p>This simply means than in a single file you can serve entire libraries and their dedicated <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym>, while JS not comaptible or disable browsers will download only one or more basic <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> (try to disable JS in packed.it and look what do you download when you have JS enabled and what&#8217;s different when JS is disabled).</p>
<p>Sorry Robert, I know this is not the right place to talk about packed.it &#8230; but hey, it was your fault, you asked? I replied <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228331</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 07:40:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228331</guid>
		<description>Harmen,

Thank you!

Andrea,

Ha ha! Well, yes, I do think it's very important to support Conditional Compilation as well. If it isnt fixed, I might consider testing another compression method.

Out of curiosity, how does packed.it stand against Dean Edward's Packer?

Tanny,

That is changed since a couple of weeks, and will be in the next upcoming release, since 64-bit support should of course also be in there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Harmen,</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>Andrea,</p>
<p>Ha ha! Well, yes, I do think it&#8217;s very important to support Conditional Compilation as well. If it isnt fixed, I might consider testing another compression method.</p>
<p>Out of curiosity, how does packed.it stand against Dean Edward&#8217;s Packer?</p>
<p>Tanny,</p>
<p>That is changed since a couple of weeks, and will be in the next upcoming release, since 64-bit support should of course also be in there.</p>
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		<title>By: Tanny O'Haley</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228246</link>
		<dc:creator>Tanny O'Haley</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Mar 2008 04:30:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-228246</guid>
		<description>Could you please change all instances of
@if (@_win32)
to
@if (@_win32 &#124; @_win64)
to provide Windows 64 bit support?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Could you please change all instances of<br />
@if (@_win32)<br />
to<br />
@if (@_win32 | @_win64)<br />
to provide Windows 64 bit support?</p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Giammarchi</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227932</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Giammarchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 19:01:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227932</guid>
		<description>&lt;blockquote&gt;Regarding compression, I’ve been very happy with the mindset and result of YUI Compressor, although I’m sure packed.it is very competent. The minifying problem is still there, though, so well see if I will change it.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
I do not use YUI Compressor, but if this does not do nothing with conditional comments (too simple in this way, guys :D), it means that packed it could produce more compact code, for the simple reason that @cc_on contains JavaScript, the same javascript that could be minified outside the comment.

I would like to mantain this feature, since CC are widely used and with 3 IE box models (8, 7, 5.5 or whatever is it), libraires.Next will use them more each new release ( IMO :) )

P.S. ... ooops, does YUI Compressor use Rhino and does not Rhino is compatible with IE cc_on code? ... he, he, he ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<blockquote><p>Regarding compression, I’ve been very happy with the mindset and result of YUI Compressor, although I’m sure packed.it is very competent. The minifying problem is still there, though, so well see if I will change it.</p></blockquote>
<p>I do not use YUI Compressor, but if this does not do nothing with conditional comments (too simple in this way, guys :D), it means that packed it could produce more compact code, for the simple reason that @cc_on contains JavaScript, the same javascript that could be minified outside the comment.</p>
<p>I would like to mantain this feature, since CC are widely used and with 3 <acronym title="Internet Explorer">IE</acronym> box models (8, 7, 5.5 or whatever is it), libraires.Next will use them more each new release ( IMO <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
<p>P.S. &#8230; ooops, does YUI Compressor use Rhino and does not Rhino is compatible with <acronym title="Internet Explorer">IE</acronym> cc_on code? &#8230; he, he, he <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Testreleases of DOMEffects and DOMValidator at Bugs in the Machinery</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227927</link>
		<dc:creator>Testreleases of DOMEffects and DOMValidator at Bugs in the Machinery</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 18:53:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227927</guid>
		<description>[...] Robert Nyman today wrote about my plugins as well as about some other exciting DOMAssistant news - like Roger&#8217;s new TextMate bundle - [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Robert Nyman today wrote about my plugins as well as about some other exciting DOMAssistant news - like Roger&#8217;s new TextMate bundle - [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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		<title>By: Harmen Janssen</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227839</link>
		<dc:creator>Harmen Janssen</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 16:20:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227839</guid>
		<description>Hey, congrats Robert! 
The IE8 bit in particular is very good news :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hey, congrats Robert!<br />
The IE8 bit in particular is very good news <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227782</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 15:04:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227782</guid>
		<description>dAN,

Thanks a lot! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>dAN,</p>
<p>Thanks a lot! <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: dAN</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227752</link>
		<dc:creator>dAN</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:21:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227752</guid>
		<description>I somehow missed your &lt;a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/02/20/domassistant-lives-version-26-released-with-overall-fastest-css-selector-performance-and-plugins/" rel="nofollow"&gt;DomAssistant lives&lt;/a&gt; post so I was delighted to hear this news after the low point of &lt;a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/25/domassistant-why-bother/" rel="nofollow"&gt;Why Bother&lt;/a&gt;
DomAssistant rules!
dAN</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I somehow missed your <a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/02/20/domassistant-lives-version-26-released-with-overall-fastest-css-selector-performance-and-plugins/" rel="nofollow">DomAssistant lives</a> post so I was delighted to hear this news after the low point of <a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/25/domassistant-why-bother/" rel="nofollow">Why Bother</a><br />
DomAssistant rules!<br />
dAN</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227741</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 14:07:55 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227741</guid>
		<description>Andrea,

Thank you!
It is very interesting that you mention this, since I've considered it for some time (but never gotten around to testing it). The DOMReady function, as I'm sure you're aware of, is heavily influenced by the work of Dean Edwards and others with &lt;a href="http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2006/06/again/" rel="nofollow"&gt;window.onload (again)&lt;/a&gt;.

My thinking has more been that they have tested it thoroughly and therefore have been a bit reluctant about changing things.

But just as you say, the above code really should work, and if nothing goes wrong, I will include it in the next release of DOMAssistant (which will be out in a week or two, and have some nice things; stay tuned :-) ).

Regarding compression, I've been very happy with the mindset and result of YUI Compressor, although I'm sure packed.it is very competent. The minifying problem is still there, though, so well see if I will change it. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andrea,</p>
<p>Thank you!<br />
It is very interesting that you mention this, since I&#8217;ve considered it for some time (but never gotten around to testing it). The DOMReady function, as I&#8217;m sure you&#8217;re aware of, is heavily influenced by the work of Dean Edwards and others with <a href="http://dean.edwards.name/weblog/2006/06/again/" rel="nofollow">window.onload (again)</a>.</p>
<p>My thinking has more been that they have tested it thoroughly and therefore have been a bit reluctant about changing things.</p>
<p>But just as you say, the above code really should work, and if nothing goes wrong, I will include it in the next release of DOMAssistant (which will be out in a week or two, and have some nice things; stay tuned <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /> ).</p>
<p>Regarding compression, I&#8217;ve been very happy with the mindset and result of YUI Compressor, although I&#8217;m sure packed.it is very competent. The minifying problem is still there, though, so well see if I will change it. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Andrea Giammarchi</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-faster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227718</link>
		<dc:creator>Andrea Giammarchi</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Mar 2008 13:43:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/03/10/domassistant-news-new-plugins-textmate-bundle-and-ten-times-taster-than-the-competitors-in-ie-8/#comment-227718</guid>
		<description>Hi Robert, good stuff as usual.

I have only one comment about one single piece of code ...

&lt;code&gt;/*@cc_on @*/
/*@if (@_win32)
    if (document.getElementById) {
        // doStuff
    }
/*@end @*/&lt;/code&gt;

could you please avoid open + open / close or nested conditional comments? 

What I mean is that this should does exactly the same thing
&lt;code&gt;/*@cc_on
@if (@_win32)
    if (document.getElementById) {
        // doStuff
    }
@end @*/&lt;/code&gt;
but it makes life easier for both non-IE browsers, during comment parsing, and "&lt;em&gt;minifiers&lt;/em&gt;" as well.

Switching them I've successfully parsed the full file into 7.3 Kb, using packed.it service.

I know you had problems as well, that conditional comment is not minified as expected even in your compressed version, while &lt;a href="http://packed.it/" rel="nofollow"&gt;packed.it&lt;/a&gt; is able to minify conditional comments as well, there's javascript inside ;-)

Your nested open without close case scenario is quite hard to understand correctly. However, did I say good stuff?

Kind Regards</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hi Robert, good stuff as usual.</p>
<p>I have only one comment about one single piece of code &#8230;</p>
<p><code>/*@cc_on @*/<br />
/*@if (@_win32)<br />
    if (document.getElementById) {<br />
        // doStuff<br />
    }<br />
/*@end @*/</code></p>
<p>could you please avoid open + open / close or nested conditional comments? </p>
<p>What I mean is that this should does exactly the same thing<br />
<code>/*@cc_on<br />
@if (@_win32)<br />
    if (document.getElementById) {<br />
        // doStuff<br />
    }<br />
@end @*/</code><br />
but it makes life easier for both non-<acronym title="Internet Explorer">IE</acronym> browsers, during comment parsing, and &#8220;<em>minifiers</em>&#8221; as well.</p>
<p>Switching them I&#8217;ve successfully parsed the full file into 7.3 <acronym title="Kilobyte">KB</acronym>, using packed.it service.</p>
<p>I know you had problems as well, that conditional comment is not minified as expected even in your compressed version, while <a href="http://packed.it/" rel="nofollow">packed.it</a> is able to minify conditional comments as well, there&#8217;s javascript inside <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Your nested open without close case scenario is quite hard to understand correctly. However, did I say good stuff?</p>
<p>Kind Regards</p>
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