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	<title>Comments on: DOMAssistant goes MIT License</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 00:09:14 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-187339</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 10:28:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-187339</guid>
		<description>Robert, 

I am very much interested in helping out. I am available on MSN, mail &#38; GTalk on the email address provided.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, </p>
<p>I am very much interested in helping out. I am available on <acronym title="Microsoft Network">MSN</acronym>, mail &amp; GTalk on the email address provided.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-187308</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 09:03:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-187308</guid>
		<description>Andy,

I should also add that if you're in any way interested in helping out with the work, be it beta testing, sample code or anything similar, just let me know!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy,</p>
<p>I should also add that if you&#8217;re in any way interested in helping out with the work, be it beta testing, sample code or anything similar, just let me know!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-187298</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Jan 2008 08:56:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-187298</guid>
		<description>Andy,

Thank you for the advice, which are very good!

Regarding the recent releases, in hindsight a beta period would definitely have been nice. It was such a small addition, and I underestimated the impact it would have, and it got a bit unfortunate. But it's also about needing people who are interested in helping out with testing, and it's not that easy to find people interested in that.

With the license I think it's important to see what the community wants as well as looking at the competitors, to offer something which can match what they offer. The community communication idea is to have this blog post (instead of a poll) to gather inoput and ideas, as well as balancing it with what I've learned about the licenses.

MIT License seems to be the best for end users, basically putting no constraints on them (or me) in whatever project DOMAssistant will be interesting to use.

The different elmsBy* methods are used internally in DOMAssistant for code separation, so offering it publicly is only about offering something which is in there anyway. Besides, if you have a certain element reference (DOM reference), it's easier to use them directly on that element then, with the added benefit of utilizing XPath when it's available. For example: &lt;code&gt;$(document).elmsByClass("news", "a")&lt;/code&gt;.

Another reason that they're available for everyone's usage is backwards compatibility, and at the same time offering a more "programmatic" approcah for those not into CSS slectors. For example, these two samples do the same thing:

&lt;code&gt;$("container").elmsByClass("print", "a");&lt;/code&gt;

&lt;code&gt;$("#container a.print");&lt;/code&gt;


I completely agree with John's suggestions, and that's my approach to, and the reason I'm very wary about adding new methods. &lt;code&gt;replaceClass&lt;/code&gt; and especially &lt;code&gt;post&lt;/code&gt; for AJAX calls were inevitable, so I felt it was better adding them sooner than later.

There's also a &lt;a href="http://code.google.com/p/domassistant/wiki/FeatureSuggestions" rel="nofollow"&gt;Wiki page with Feature Sggestions&lt;/a&gt; on the code site, where everyone can express what they feel suited for DOMAssistant, where I will consider and comment on those.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Andy,</p>
<p>Thank you for the advice, which are very good!</p>
<p>Regarding the recent releases, in hindsight a beta period would definitely have been nice. It was such a small addition, and I underestimated the impact it would have, and it got a bit unfortunate. But it&#8217;s also about needing people who are interested in helping out with testing, and it&#8217;s not that easy to find people interested in that.</p>
<p>With the license I think it&#8217;s important to see what the community wants as well as looking at the competitors, to offer something which can match what they offer. The community communication idea is to have this blog post (instead of a poll) to gather inoput and ideas, as well as balancing it with what I&#8217;ve learned about the licenses.</p>
<p>MIT License seems to be the best for end users, basically putting no constraints on them (or me) in whatever project DOMAssistant will be interesting to use.</p>
<p>The different elmsBy* methods are used internally in DOMAssistant for code separation, so offering it publicly is only about offering something which is in there anyway. Besides, if you have a certain element reference (<acronym title="Document Object Model">DOM</acronym> reference), it&#8217;s easier to use them directly on that element then, with the added benefit of utilizing XPath when it&#8217;s available. For example: <code>$(document).elmsByClass("news", "a")</code>.</p>
<p>Another reason that they&#8217;re available for everyone&#8217;s usage is backwards compatibility, and at the same time offering a more &#8220;programmatic&#8221; approcah for those not into <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> slectors. For example, these two samples do the same thing:</p>
<p><code>$("container").elmsByClass("print", "a");</code></p>
<p><code>$("#container a.print");</code></p>
<p>I completely agree with John&#8217;s suggestions, and that&#8217;s my approach to, and the reason I&#8217;m very wary about adding new methods. <code>replaceClass</code> and especially <code>post</code> for <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> calls were inevitable, so I felt it was better adding them sooner than later.</p>
<p>There&#8217;s also a <a href="http://code.google.com/p/domassistant/wiki/FeatureSuggestions" rel="nofollow">Wiki page with Feature Sggestions</a> on the code site, where everyone can express what they feel suited for DOMAssistant, where I will consider and comment on those.</p>
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		<title>By: Andy</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-186913</link>
		<dc:creator>Andy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 20:51:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-186913</guid>
		<description>Robert, I see you've been releasing fixes with a couple of days interval and I would suggest that the library should undergo a short beta period before "officially" releasing the code to prevent these sort of things. As for the license, I think you should thoroughly go through the candidates rather than going for what the mainstream does. Perhaps even setting up a poll to see what the community wants.

Another thing that crossed my mind is that ElmsBy* methods might be superfluous due to the introduction of CSS selectors. The only gain I could see of having them is that they're possibly faster than the CSS Selector method. This should of course be benchmarked to see if there's any significant gain of actually keeping them. 

Perhaps create a forum to discuss future additions to the codebase? I believe that every addition should be put through careful consideration before adding. As John Resig said during the "&lt;a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-474821803269194441&#38;hl=en" title="Best Practices in Javasscript Library Design" rel="nofollow"&gt;Best Practices in Javascript Library Design&lt;/a&gt;" presentation:
&lt;blockquote cite="John Resig"&gt;You should fear adding new items into your API. You need to keep it as small as possible because every single method that you add, you are going to have to support.&lt;/blockquote&gt;&lt;blockquote cite="John Resig"&gt;Wherever possible, if you can get away with not adding a method, you should.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
...Just thought I'd give you some friendly advice.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, I see you&#8217;ve been releasing fixes with a couple of days interval and I would suggest that the library should undergo a short beta period before &#8220;officially&#8221; releasing the code to prevent these sort of things. As for the license, I think you should thoroughly go through the candidates rather than going for what the mainstream does. Perhaps even setting up a poll to see what the community wants.</p>
<p>Another thing that crossed my mind is that ElmsBy* methods might be superfluous due to the introduction of <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> selectors. The only gain I could see of having them is that they&#8217;re possibly faster than the <acronym title="Cascading Style Sheets">CSS</acronym> Selector method. This should of course be benchmarked to see if there&#8217;s any significant gain of actually keeping them. </p>
<p>Perhaps create a forum to discuss future additions to the codebase? I believe that every addition should be put through careful consideration before adding. As John Resig said during the &#8220;<a href="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-474821803269194441&amp;hl=en" title="Best Practices in Javasscript Library Design" rel="nofollow">Best Practices in Javascript Library Design</a>&#8221; presentation:</p>
<blockquote cite="John Resig"><p>You should fear adding new items into your <acronym title="Application Programming Interface">API</acronym>. You need to keep it as small as possible because every single method that you add, you are going to have to support.</p></blockquote>
<blockquote cite="John Resig"><p>Wherever possible, if you can get away with not adding a method, you should.</p></blockquote>
<p>&#8230;Just thought I&#8217;d give you some friendly advice.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-186593</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 11:31:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-186593</guid>
		<description>Pelle,

Thanks, good point. I wouldn't want it to be forced for them to re-release their changes, although my (maybe somewhat naive) hope is that they will be interested in giving something back.

I think it will be a MIT License for now, and then we'll see.

Erik,

Good! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Pelle,</p>
<p>Thanks, good point. I wouldn&#8217;t want it to be forced for them to re-release their changes, although my (maybe somewhat naive) hope is that they will be interested in giving something back.</p>
<p>I think it will be a MIT License for now, and then we&#8217;ll see.</p>
<p>Erik,</p>
<p>Good! <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Erik</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-186580</link>
		<dc:creator>Erik</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 16 Jan 2008 10:58:24 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-186580</guid>
		<description>Excellent!!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Excellent!!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Pelle</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185805</link>
		<dc:creator>Pelle</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 13:36:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185805</guid>
		<description>LGPL forces changes to DOMAssistant to be released opensource while MIT leaves it up to the modifier to decide whether the changes should be released back to the community or not. If I had understood the licenses correctly that is...

A modified version of DOMAssistant that isn't released as open source can still indirectly be of contribution to the project because it can lead to contributions in the future from either the modifier himself or from someone else who has been inspired by the success of the closed modifidied library.

I think that DOMAssistant can benefit from having people contributing to the project according to their own possibilities rather than by a license. In other words - I would prefer MIT, but I don't see anything wrong with LGPL...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><acronym title="GNU Lesser General Public License">LGPL</acronym> forces changes to DOMAssistant to be released opensource while MIT leaves it up to the modifier to decide whether the changes should be released back to the community or not. If I had understood the licenses correctly that is&#8230;</p>
<p>A modified version of DOMAssistant that isn&#8217;t released as open source can still indirectly be of contribution to the project because it can lead to contributions in the future from either the modifier himself or from someone else who has been inspired by the success of the closed modifidied library.</p>
<p>I think that DOMAssistant can benefit from having people contributing to the project according to their own possibilities rather than by a license. In other words - I would prefer MIT, but I don&#8217;t see anything wrong with <acronym title="GNU Lesser General Public License">LGPL</acronym>&#8230;</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185612</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 09:20:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185612</guid>
		<description>Martin,

Hmm, I see. To me it's a delicate balance between offering what the other library makers do, while at the same time trying to make sure that DOMAssistant is respected.

Maybe LGPL is better if it means that it can be used anywhere, and if you tweak DOMAssistant itself, only that certain part has to be open. Preferably, given that I offer it openly, naturally I don't want it to be closed in with anothe environment.

Do you see any scenario where a LGPL would hold any web developers/product back?

As a side note: the license reference in the DOMAssistant code refers to the &lt;a href="http://code.google.com/p/domassistant/" rel="nofollow"&gt;DOMAssistant Google Code site&lt;/a&gt;, so I can change it without re-releasing the source code. Therefore, I want to try what suits everyone best without comprimising the integrity of DOMAssistant.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin,</p>
<p>Hmm, I see. To me it&#8217;s a delicate balance between offering what the other library makers do, while at the same time trying to make sure that DOMAssistant is respected.</p>
<p>Maybe <acronym title="GNU Lesser General Public License">LGPL</acronym> is better if it means that it can be used anywhere, and if you tweak DOMAssistant itself, only that certain part has to be open. Preferably, given that I offer it openly, naturally I don&#8217;t want it to be closed in with anothe environment.</p>
<p>Do you see any scenario where a <acronym title="GNU Lesser General Public License">LGPL</acronym> would hold any web developers/product back?</p>
<p>As a side note: the license reference in the DOMAssistant code refers to the <a href="http://code.google.com/p/domassistant/" rel="nofollow">DOMAssistant Google Code site</a>, so I can change it without re-releasing the source code. Therefore, I want to try what suits everyone best without comprimising the integrity of DOMAssistant.</p>
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		<title>By: Martin Odhelius</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185589</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Odhelius</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:51:36 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185589</guid>
		<description>If using GPL on libraries and similar code, LGPL is almost always to prefer. With that license no other code has to be open source, the only code that has to be open under such license is the library itself, which will result in that modifications of your code also have to be open. With a MIT license people can use it and modify it as they want to without keeping it open source. Whats the most preferable is of course up to the author ;)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>If using <acronym title="GNU General Public License">GPL</acronym> on libraries and similar code, <acronym title="GNU Lesser General Public License">LGPL</acronym> is almost always to prefer. With that license no other code has to be open source, the only code that has to be open under such license is the library itself, which will result in that modifications of your code also have to be open. With a MIT license people can use it and modify it as they want to without keeping it open source. Whats the most preferable is of course up to the author <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185570</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 08:16:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185570</guid>
		<description>Fredrik,

As I've understood, there might be issues where some of your other code will need to be open source as well, which isn't always desirable in commercial projects.

Besides, most other major JavaScript libraries use an MIT License, so it felt like a good idea to be on par with them.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Fredrik,</p>
<p>As I&#8217;ve understood, there might be issues where some of your other code will need to be open source as well, which isn&#8217;t always desirable in commercial projects.</p>
<p>Besides, most other major JavaScript libraries use an MIT License, so it felt like a good idea to be on par with them.</p>
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		<title>By: Fredrik Frodlund</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185506</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredrik Frodlund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 15 Jan 2008 06:17:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2008/01/14/domassistant-goes-mit-license/#comment-185506</guid>
		<description>It's been a while since I read the GPL, but I can't seem to remember there being any restrictions about using GPL:ed code in commercial projects. You just need to provide the source code, which, in the case of Javascript, you do per default. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s been a while since I read the <acronym title="GNU General Public License">GPL</acronym>, but I can&#8217;t seem to remember there being any restrictions about using GPL:ed code in commercial projects. You just need to provide the source code, which, in the case of Javascript, you do per default. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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