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	<title>Comments on: Where does the hard drive size go?</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
	<pubDate>Tue, 06 Jan 2009 05:33:49 +0000</pubDate>
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		<title>By: Alex</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-466838</link>
		<dc:creator>Alex</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 22 Oct 2008 13:04:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-466838</guid>
		<description>Guilherme Zuhlke O’Connor  

The disc allocation information does use a bit of it, however, it does not use as much as you are saying.  If you look at the spec sheet from the manufacturer of the drive, it will say that they are using the 1,000 system and not 1024.  This is completely a marketing ploy that worked a lot better when people were using 1 to 5 gig drives, because then you could say the small amount left was being used by the access tables, however, with current 750 gig drives and terabyte drives, it just doesn't make sense and isn't true.  If you call the company and complain enough, they will admit it, but not fix anything.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Guilherme Zuhlke O’Connor  </p>
<p>The disc allocation information does use a bit of it, however, it does not use as much as you are saying.  If you look at the spec sheet from the manufacturer of the drive, it will say that they are using the 1,000 system and not 1024.  This is completely a marketing ploy that worked a lot better when people were using 1 to 5 gig drives, because then you could say the small amount left was being used by the access tables, however, with current 750 gig drives and terabyte drives, it just doesn&#8217;t make sense and isn&#8217;t true.  If you call the company and complain enough, they will admit it, but not fix anything.</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-123675</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 20 Oct 2007 00:38:22 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-123675</guid>
		<description>I'd like to hear more about Google.
My hard drive looses it's space to the tune of GB's within
a 24 hour period.

I even bought another 500 GB external hard drive last week.
I cleared everything I could think of from my various folders
and files.
it freed up approx 7 GB"s.

I unplugged the external hard drive and checked my drive space,
approx 7 GB free space.

The hard drive remains unplugged.
I add no new programs.
I use the computer very little, only checking e-mails.

Two days later I get another low disk space warning.
24 mega bites left.
What in the world is up with all of this???</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;d like to hear more about Google.<br />
My hard drive looses it&#8217;s space to the tune of <acronym title="Gigabyte">GB</acronym>&#8217;s within<br />
a 24 hour period.</p>
<p>I even bought another 500 <acronym title="Gigabyte">GB</acronym> external hard drive last week.<br />
I cleared everything I could think of from my various folders<br />
and files.<br />
it freed up approx 7 <acronym title="Gigabyte">GB</acronym>&#8221;s.</p>
<p>I unplugged the external hard drive and checked my drive space,<br />
approx 7 <acronym title="Gigabyte">GB</acronym> free space.</p>
<p>The hard drive remains unplugged.<br />
I add no new programs.<br />
I use the computer very little, only checking e-mails.</p>
<p>Two days later I get another low disk space warning.<br />
24 mega bites left.<br />
What in the world is up with all of this???</p>
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		<title>By: Guilherme Zuhlke O'Connor</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-113523</link>
		<dc:creator>Guilherme Zuhlke O'Connor</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 01 Oct 2007 22:53:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-113523</guid>
		<description>I am not sure if the 1024 story is the reason. After all, if it says 80Gb no matter if this is or not 80.000.000.000 bytes, 80Gb can't just be 72Gb when you look at it.

AFAIK, the thing is that a 80GB HD has 80Gb of raw space. You can actually store 80*1024^3 bytes, but that is an obscene amount of data and you need to organize it some way. That is when the Filesystem comes in and takes a part of it for the Allocation Table.

The more complex your filesystem is, in general, the more space it takes. Using a fairly complex FS with journaling, user permissions and three levels of users (like Unix systems like Mac do) takes more space than using the old FAT 32 system.

Moreover, there is the block size. Data is stored in small indivisible sequencial blocks and its size may vary.

Because they are indivisible and sequencial, part of them is wasted for every file, so you have an average waste of (number of files)*(block size)/2. To prevent this you can reduce the block size, but keep in mind that this will affect performace and also may reflect on a bigger allocation table, because there are more blocks to index.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I am not sure if the 1024 story is the reason. After all, if it says 80Gb no matter if this is or not 80.000.000.000 bytes, 80Gb can&#8217;t just be 72Gb when you look at it.</p>
<p>AFAIK, the thing is that a 80GB HD has 80Gb of raw space. You can actually store 80*1024^3 bytes, but that is an obscene amount of data and you need to organize it some way. That is when the Filesystem comes in and takes a part of it for the Allocation Table.</p>
<p>The more complex your filesystem is, in general, the more space it takes. Using a fairly complex FS with journaling, user permissions and three levels of users (like Unix systems like Mac do) takes more space than using the old FAT 32 system.</p>
<p>Moreover, there is the block size. Data is stored in small indivisible sequencial blocks and its size may vary.</p>
<p>Because they are indivisible and sequencial, part of them is wasted for every file, so you have an average waste of (number of files)*(block size)/2. To prevent this you can reduce the block size, but keep in mind that this will affect performace and also may reflect on a bigger allocation table, because there are more blocks to index.</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-104064</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:32:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-104064</guid>
		<description>Nikke,

Ha ha!, Yeah, maybe! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nikke,</p>
<p>Ha ha!, Yeah, maybe! <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Nikke</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-104061</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:16:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-104061</guid>
		<description>Uh... And by they I mean Google ofcourse.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Uh&#8230; And by they I mean Google ofcourse.</p>
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		<title>By: Nikke</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-104060</link>
		<dc:creator>Nikke</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Sep 2007 06:15:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-104060</guid>
		<description>Perhaps they're trying to get away without starting new datacenters and are harnessing home computers instead. Just like Seti@Home ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Perhaps they&#8217;re trying to get away without starting new datacenters and are harnessing home computers instead. Just like Seti@Home <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-103838</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 18:23:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-103838</guid>
		<description>Jeff,

Wow, that's a pretty large index file!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Jeff,</p>
<p>Wow, that&#8217;s a pretty large index file!</p>
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		<title>By: Jeff L</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-103807</link>
		<dc:creator>Jeff L</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 13 Sep 2007 17:18:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-103807</guid>
		<description>Google is stealing my hard drive space.  

I've been wondering where it has been going, and I found the culprit...Google Desktop.

The index file is something around 5GB for my machine, and constantly growing I assume.

Crikey!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Google is stealing my hard drive space.  </p>
<p>I&#8217;ve been wondering where it has been going, and I found the culprit&#8230;Google Desktop.</p>
<p>The index file is something around 5GB for my machine, and constantly growing I assume.</p>
<p>Crikey!</p>
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		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102670</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 11 Sep 2007 20:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102670</guid>
		<description>Wow, thanks! Maybe I should've thought of the 1024 situation, but it completely passed my mind. Besides, I think a lot of people do expect that when they buy a computer, so, while completely correct, I think the resellers are a little bit tricky.

I mean, people will look at how large their computer syas the disk is, compare to the ad, and be dissatisfied.

Carl,

You cheeky, you... :-)
Actually, I think the ozone layer is in fairly good shape over Sweden, thank you very much. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Wow, thanks! Maybe I should&#8217;ve thought of the 1024 situation, but it completely passed my mind. Besides, I think a lot of people do expect that when they buy a computer, so, while completely correct, I think the resellers are a little bit tricky.</p>
<p>I mean, people will look at how large their computer syas the disk is, compare to the ad, and be dissatisfied.</p>
<p>Carl,</p>
<p>You cheeky, you&#8230; <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Actually, I think the ozone layer is in fairly good shape over Sweden, thank you very much. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: OJ</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102142</link>
		<dc:creator>OJ</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 22:36:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102142</guid>
		<description>GB is now a very common synonym for the base-10 system, and hence the manufacturer is actually correct.

The term you're looking for is &lt;a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibibyte" rel="nofollow"&gt;Gibibyte&lt;/a&gt; which is where the powers of 1024 come into play.

Just FYI :)
Cheers.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><acronym title="Gigabyte">GB</acronym> is now a very common synonym for the base-10 system, and hence the manufacturer is actually correct.</p>
<p>The term you&#8217;re looking for is <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gibibyte" rel="nofollow">Gibibyte</a> which is where the powers of 1024 come into play.</p>
<p>Just FYI <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Cheers.</p>
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		<title>By: AndrÃ© LuÃ­s</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102080</link>
		<dc:creator>AndrÃ© LuÃ­s</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 19:54:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102080</guid>
		<description>Unfortunately this goes back to the early days of desktop computers. Specially when hard drives started coming out with over 1Gigabyte of storate... I'm sure some marketing smart-ass decided to scam their customers with the 1024 bytes = 1kilobyte story. Then, next thing we know, every single manufacturer is adopting the same marketing strategy! Now, it's common place. 

This different comes from the binary system. Computers store bits. If you want to know how many elements you can name with any given number of bits you just power two to the number of bits and you get their span:

2^1 = 2 =&#62; you can name two addresses with 1 bit (0,1)
2^2 = 4 =&#62; you can name 4 addresses (00,01,10,11)
2^3 = 8 =&#62; 8 addresses (000,001,010,100,101,110,011,111)
...
2^10 = 1024, so people didn't want to simply ignore those extra 24 places just to make it easier for common folk to read "kilobytes".

Thus was born the different of the prefixes Kilo- Giga- Tera- Peta- when it comes to bytes.

( Thought someone might want to know the story behind the 1024... ;) )</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Unfortunately this goes back to the early days of desktop computers. Specially when hard drives started coming out with over 1Gigabyte of storate&#8230; I&#8217;m sure some marketing smart-ass decided to scam their customers with the 1024 bytes = 1kilobyte story. Then, next thing we know, every single manufacturer is adopting the same marketing strategy! Now, it&#8217;s common place. </p>
<p>This different comes from the binary system. Computers store bits. If you want to know how many elements you can name with any given number of bits you just power two to the number of bits and you get their span:</p>
<p>2^1 = 2 =&gt; you can name two addresses with 1 bit (0,1)<br />
2^2 = 4 =&gt; you can name 4 addresses (00,01,10,11)<br />
2^3 = 8 =&gt; 8 addresses (000,001,010,100,101,110,011,111)<br />
&#8230;<br />
2^10 = 1024, so people didn&#8217;t want to simply ignore those extra 24 places just to make it easier for common folk to read &#8220;kilobytes&#8221;.</p>
<p>Thus was born the different of the prefixes Kilo- Giga- Tera- Peta- when it comes to bytes.</p>
<p>( Thought someone might want to know the story behind the 1024&#8230; <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> )</p>
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		<title>By: Fredrik Frodlund</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102043</link>
		<dc:creator>Fredrik Frodlund</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:56:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102043</guid>
		<description>Disk allocation and differing byte counting aside, &lt;a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnidisksweeper/" rel="nofollow"&gt;OmniDiskSweeper&lt;/a&gt; is a great tool to keep track of were the rest of that space went (that which you &lt;em&gt;do&lt;/em&gt; have at your disposal ;)) and if you pay the license fee, you can delete stuff directly from the application as well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Disk allocation and differing byte counting aside, <a href="http://www.omnigroup.com/applications/omnidisksweeper/" rel="nofollow">OmniDiskSweeper</a> is a great tool to keep track of were the rest of that space went (that which you <em>do</em> have at your disposal ;)) and if you pay the license fee, you can delete stuff directly from the application as well.</p>
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		<title>By: Scott Powers</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102010</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Powers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 17:09:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102010</guid>
		<description>Ya learn something new every day. Didn't know they used different measurement systems either. I've wondered about those missing GB's myself many time.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ya learn something new every day. Didn&#8217;t know they used different measurement systems either. I&#8217;ve wondered about those missing <acronym title="Gigabyte">GB</acronym>&#8217;s myself many time.</p>
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		<title>By: Carl</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102003</link>
		<dc:creator>Carl</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 16:44:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-102003</guid>
		<description>The hard drive space is actually being by depleted by gamma rays  during the transcontinental flight to Sweden.  These rays would normally be deflected by the ozone layer in the Earth's atmosphere.  Blame &lt;strong&gt;global warming&lt;/strong&gt;. :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The hard drive space is actually being by depleted by gamma rays  during the transcontinental flight to Sweden.  These rays would normally be deflected by the ozone layer in the Earth&#8217;s atmosphere.  Blame <strong>global warming</strong>. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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		<title>By: Sigurdhsson</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101944</link>
		<dc:creator>Sigurdhsson</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 13:56:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101944</guid>
		<description>As said by Gerben it's because computers use 1024 where the manufacturers use 10^3 - that's why the new prefixes Ki, Gi, Ti, etc are emerging. That way 160GB is always 160GB, but in computers you'd list it as 149GiB.

And I think apple has a disclaimer about this (bottom of the apple.com shop page), in small, grey text, as if they didn't want yo to see it ;).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As said by Gerben it&#8217;s because computers use 1024 where the manufacturers use 10^3 - that&#8217;s why the new prefixes Ki, Gi, Ti, etc are emerging. That way 160GB is always 160GB, but in computers you&#8217;d list it as 149GiB.</p>
<p>And I think apple has a disclaimer about this (bottom of the apple.com shop page), in small, grey text, as if they didn&#8217;t want yo to see it ;).</p>
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		<title>By: HÃ¼seyin</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101911</link>
		<dc:creator>HÃ¼seyin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:43:06 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101911</guid>
		<description>AFAIK those missing parts are used for holding data about partition tables and some other stuff like that.

This is same as iPod's. For example iPod nano 4GB is actually 3.7GB. You are damn right about advertising, they should advertise what they are giving us.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>AFAIK those missing parts are used for holding data about partition tables and some other stuff like that.</p>
<p>This is same as iPod&#8217;s. For example iPod nano 4GB is actually 3.7GB. You are damn right about advertising, they should advertise what they are giving us.</p>
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		<title>By: Jaap</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101901</link>
		<dc:creator>Jaap</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 12:37:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101901</guid>
		<description>What Gerben said... I was under the impression that everybody knew that... quite a fitting domain name there Gerben. (algemeen bekend translates to generally known).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What Gerben said&#8230; I was under the impression that everybody knew that&#8230; quite a fitting domain name there Gerben. (algemeen bekend translates to generally known).</p>
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		<title>By: Gerben</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101880</link>
		<dc:creator>Gerben</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 10 Sep 2007 11:54:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/09/10/where-does-the-hard-drive-size-go/#comment-101880</guid>
		<description>Hard drive manufacturers measure using the decimal (not binary) system. So 1KB is 1000Bytes, while computers say 1KB is 1024Bytes. This way the size you see in your OS doesn't match what the manufacturers say.
So in the case of your 160 GB drive. 160 * 1000^3 = 160000000000Bytes.
160000000000 / 1024^3 = 149GB</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hard drive manufacturers measure using the decimal (not binary) system. So 1KB is 1000Bytes, while computers say 1KB is 1024Bytes. This way the size you see in your OS doesn&#8217;t match what the manufacturers say.<br />
So in the case of your 160 <acronym title="Gigabyte">GB</acronym> drive. 160 * 1000^3 = 160000000000Bytes.<br />
160000000000 / 1024^3 = 149GB</p>
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