Comments on: Beware of these people working with IT http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/ Web development and Internet trends Tue, 06 Jan 2009 10:49:12 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-68538 Robert Nyman Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:58:41 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-68538 Christopher, Ah, I wholeheartedly agree, I hear that phrase all the time too. Pretty sad, actually. Christopher,

Ah, I wholeheartedly agree, I hear that phrase all the time too. Pretty sad, actually.

]]> By: Christopher Papastefanou http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-68426 Christopher Papastefanou Mon, 11 Jun 2007 13:19:19 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-68426 People who don't seem to realize that Mac OS is an operating system on which you may run different browsers, that among themselves may produce different results. Oddly enough I hear this a lot from people that actually do know. They just seem to forget that they know, and pretend that Mac is a browser, or that Mac OS runs one browser and one browser only. I often hear developers say: "So it works in Explorer and Firefox. How about Mac? Does it work on a Mac?" Adding to the frustration, it's very difficult to correct them without being condencending, explaining the difference between an OS and browser to a developer... People who don’t seem to realize that Mac OS is an operating system on which you may run different browsers, that among themselves may produce different results.

Oddly enough I hear this a lot from people that actually do know. They just seem to forget that they know, and pretend that Mac is a browser, or that Mac OS runs one browser and one browser only.

I often hear developers say: “So it works in Explorer and Firefox. How about Mac? Does it work on a Mac?”

Adding to the frustration, it’s very difficult to correct them without being condencending, explaining the difference between an OS and browser to a developer…

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-66202 Robert Nyman Mon, 04 Jun 2007 08:36:16 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-66202 Kris, Yes, that's a nice one. :-) Kris,

Yes, that’s a nice one. :-)

]]> By: Kris http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-66198 Kris Mon, 04 Jun 2007 08:20:58 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-66198 People who ask me to change an image in ‘Adobe’. People who ask me to change an image in ‘Adobe’.

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-65026 Robert Nyman Wed, 30 May 2007 20:57:24 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-65026 Chris, Ha ha! :-) Chris,

Ha ha! :-)

]]> By: Chris http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-65024 Chris Wed, 30 May 2007 20:44:13 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-65024 Ha! Brilliant. I'm a web developer myself and prior to that I spent 4 months working on the Service Desk. I was amazed how many people from my own IT department would ring to ask the most obvious questions. The most shocking was when a guy in our network team - essentially the man in charge of the net connections, proxys and firewalls - saw my workmate with his IE favourites window open and asked if could "pop up sometime and install it on his machine". Mind you, they never taught me that at university either. I had to work it out for myself. ;) Ha! Brilliant. I’m a web developer myself and prior to that I spent 4 months working on the Service Desk. I was amazed how many people from my own IT department would ring to ask the most obvious questions.

The most shocking was when a guy in our network team - essentially the man in charge of the net connections, proxys and firewalls - saw my workmate with his IE favourites window open and asked if could “POP up sometime and install it on his machine”.

Mind you, they never taught me that at university either. I had to work it out for myself. ;)

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64688 Robert Nyman Tue, 29 May 2007 20:43:19 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64688 Love, Most definitely! But sadly that seems to go for all kinds of work and environments... mahalie, Ah, yes, wonderful, isn't it? <blockquote cite="http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64657"> Thanks for this thread, it was cathartic. </blockquote> Sure, you're welcome! :-) Love,

Most definitely! But sadly that seems to go for all kinds of work and environments…

mahalie,

Ah, yes, wonderful, isn’t it?

Thanks for this thread, it was cathartic.

Sure, you’re welcome! :-)

]]> By: mahalie http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64657 mahalie Tue, 29 May 2007 17:47:19 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64657 How bout people who say "I was a web developer in my last job", then say they don't want RSS on the firm's new site because it could cost a lot and no one uses it. Then they email you with a link to "cool feature" they'd like to include (could we use this?) and it's an IE-only javascript image swapper from 1998! No wonder some people think I just push magic buttons. Thanks for this thread, it was cathartic. How bout people who say “I was a web developer in my last job”, then say they don’t want RSS on the firm’s new site because it could cost a lot and no one uses it. Then they email you with a link to “cool feature” they’d like to include (could we use this?) and it’s an IE-only javascript image swapper from 1998!

No wonder some people think I just push magic buttons. Thanks for this thread, it was cathartic.

]]> By: Love http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64586 Love Tue, 29 May 2007 12:19:53 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64586 Clueless people putting down other clueless people to look good. Clueless people putting down other clueless people to look good.

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64504 Robert Nyman Tue, 29 May 2007 07:29:58 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64504 Thanks for sharing! I think I should've written Web instead of IT to be more specific, but nevertheless I generally agree with your suggestions. Webstandard-Team, Oh, that's too much to cover in detail here, how to present it and argue. :-) Jules, No problem, that is a totally valid one. :-) Hayo, In general, I'm on your side. But I think that if you are, say, a Project Manager for the building of web sites, I think it's your obligation to know about a web browser that has <a href="http://www.thecounter.com/stats/2007/April/browser.php">3-4% of the market</a>, just as well as the other major web browsers. Thomas, Well, yes, but maybe not management people... :-) Megan, Hmm, driver confusion. It's been a while since I encountered that! <blockquote cite="http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment- 64300"> “everyone just uses Microsoft, don’t they?” </blockquote> Quotes like that are actually the biggest threat to web interoperability and the whole future and idea of it. No matter the product, the web is not just one company. eugene, But of course! Georges, ½-pixels are indeed the new fashion. :-) Steven, Long time, no comment! :-) It sounds like you had some web developing suffering as of lately... :-) Jermayn, I feel your pain, I really do! Tommy, Well, it's a hard one. Naturally I think everyone should know that it exists, especially in the mobile phone market. But if time should be set aside to ensure everything works in it? I don't know... 99% of the time, things that work in Safari and Firefox will work in Opera, but in cases when it doesn't, Opera's market share is so miniscule so it has to be a budget decision if extra time and money should be spent in Opera-specific work. Thanks for sharing! I think I should’ve written Web instead of IT to be more specific, but

nevertheless I generally agree with your suggestions.

Webstandard-Team,

Oh, that’s too much to cover in detail here, how to present it and argue. :-)

Jules,

No problem, that is a totally valid one. :-)
Hayo,

In general, I’m on your side. But I think that if you are, say, a Project Manager for the

building of web sites, I think it’s your obligation to know about a web browser that has 3-4% of the market, just

as well as the other major web browsers.

Thomas,

Well, yes, but maybe not management people… :-)

Megan,

Hmm, driver confusion. It’s been a while since I encountered that!


“everyone just uses Microsoft, don’t they?”

Quotes like that are actually the biggest threat to web interoperability and the whole future

and idea of it. No matter the product, the web is not just one company.

eugene,

But of course!

Georges,

½-pixels are indeed the new fashion. :-)

Steven,

Long time, no comment! :-)
It sounds like you had some web developing suffering as of lately… :-)

Jermayn,

I feel your pain, I really do!

Tommy,

Well, it’s a hard one. Naturally I think everyone should know that it exists, especially in the mobile phone market. But if time should be set aside to ensure everything works in it? I don’t know…

99% of the time, things that work in Safari and Firefox will work in Opera, but in cases when it doesn’t, Opera’s market share is so miniscule so it has to be a budget decision if extra time and money should be spent in Opera-specific work.

]]> By: Tommy Olsson http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64503 Tommy Olsson Tue, 29 May 2007 07:25:28 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64503 When people say, <blockquote>the other major player besides Internet Explorer.</blockquote> When they go to lengths making others aware of Firefox and Safari, but never mention Opera - the fastest and most secure browser available; the most configurable and the one with the most features built-in. When people say,

the other major player besides Internet Explorer.

When they go to lengths making others aware of Firefox and Safari, but never mention Opera - the fastest and most secure browser available; the most configurable and the one with the most features built-in.

]]> By: Jermayn Parker http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64436 Jermayn Parker Tue, 29 May 2007 02:07:23 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64436 That actually sounds like half of the IT team at were I work part time... That actually sounds like half of the IT team at were I work part time…

]]> By: Steven Clark http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64401 Steven Clark Mon, 28 May 2007 22:23:59 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64401 IT people (titled web developer / designer) with things on their resume like XHTML, CSS, PHP, Java Programmer - phone you and ask how they can change the title of their home page or want to know why they can't paste from MS Word to Wordpress just because 'everyone does it'! IT people who hire you to create web standard pages then insist on chucking every junk bit of obtrusive non-validating whatsit on the pages so they don't validate - what's the trouble they say, it works doesn't it?! IT people who phone you at midnight on Friday night insisting to discuss some trivial 1px shift in Safari something or other because to them its the most important thing in the world so you must not sleep until this is fixed. The big one... IT people who ring you and the first thing they say is "the last developer i had was a total idiot so i fired him and need someone else" (see the red flag in that sentence anyone?). Oh i'm probably just jaded lol. :) IT people (titled web developer / designer) with things on their resume like XHTML, CSS, PHP, Java Programmer - phone you and ask how they can change the title of their home page or want to know why they can’t paste from MS Word to Wordpress just because ‘everyone does it’!

IT people who hire you to create web standard pages then insist on chucking every junk bit of obtrusive non-validating whatsit on the pages so they don’t validate - what’s the trouble they say, it works doesn’t it?!

IT people who phone you at midnight on Friday night insisting to discuss some trivial 1px shift in Safari something or other because to them its the most important thing in the world so you must not sleep until this is fixed.

The big one…

IT people who ring you and the first thing they say is “the last developer i had was a total idiot so i fired him and need someone else” (see the red flag in that sentence anyone?).

Oh i’m probably just jaded lol. :)

]]> By: Georges Jentgen http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64349 Georges Jentgen Mon, 28 May 2007 19:22:16 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64349 The last thing that drove me crazy: A coworker from the design department (we sell high quality jewelery, so design department is the place where the jewelery-designs come from) asked me if something is possible to do in html. The coworker shoewed me a small drawing/sketch of how it should look like. What disturbed me was that the sketch had a fixed witdh of 905 pixels, and was divided in 2 equal parts. Each part was 452,5 pixels width :) That threw my entire view of the world into pieces... since then I am consulting a psy :) The last thing that drove me crazy: A coworker from the design department (we sell high quality jewelery, so design department is the place where the jewelery-designs come from) asked me if something is possible to do in HTML. The coworker shoewed me a small drawing/sketch of how it should look like. What disturbed me was that the sketch had a fixed witdh of 905 pixels, and was divided in 2 equal parts. Each part was 452,5 pixels width :)

That threw my entire view of the world into pieces… since then I am consulting a psy :)

]]> By: Morgan Roderick http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64344 Morgan Roderick Mon, 28 May 2007 18:21:11 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64344 Senior Management types that thinks that a team of 4 can give an accurate estimate on a 1000+ hour job, in a matter of a couple of hours. Clueless Account managers that spend their time looking for houses, boats, concert tickets, cars, instead of spending their time making sure that our relationship with the clients is the best it can be, and that we're serving the clients needs, instead of just raking up billable hours building stuff that the client doesn't need. Publishers of Teach Yourself [insert random difficult technology] in 21 days / 21 hours / 21 seconds books, and people that actually believe that what you can read in these books really gives you the same qualifications and skills that others use years of their lives to master. Senior Management types that thinks that a team of 4 can give an accurate estimate on a 1000+ hour job, in a matter of a couple of hours.

Clueless Account managers that spend their time looking for houses, boats, concert tickets, cars, instead of spending their time making sure that our relationship with the clients is the best it can be, and that we’re serving the clients needs, instead of just raking up billable hours building stuff that the client doesn’t need.

Publishers of Teach Yourself [insert random difficult technology] in 21 days / 21 hours / 21 seconds books, and people that actually believe that what you can read in these books really gives you the same qualifications and skills that others use years of their lives to master.

]]> By: eugene http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64302 eugene Mon, 28 May 2007 14:49:37 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64302 Standards? What standards? Standards? What standards?

]]> By: Megan http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64300 Megan Mon, 28 May 2007 14:47:27 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64300 I once had a manager who didn't know the difference between her "C" drive and the network drives! That has to take the cake. Anyone who ever says "everyone just uses Microsoft, don't they?" or anything to that effect. Not knowing how to do anything without official training would be a red flag too. I once had a manager who didn’t know the difference between her “C” drive and the network drives! That has to take the cake.

Anyone who ever says “everyone just uses Microsoft, don’t they?” or anything to that effect.

Not knowing how to do anything without official training would be a red flag too.

]]> By: Thomas Hansen http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64292 Thomas Hansen Mon, 28 May 2007 13:48:19 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64292 I'd in general terms be cautious with people who don't see the bug in this code; template struct Int2Type { T t; }; // ;) // .t I’d in general terms be cautious with people who don’t see the bug in this code;

template struct Int2Type
{
T t;
};

// ;)

// .t

]]> By: Hayo Bethlehem http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64274 Hayo Bethlehem Mon, 28 May 2007 12:52:05 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64274 "People not knowing that Safari is a web browser." That's a bit elitist. In NL, 99% of IT = Microsoft, and lots of IT people have never seen a mac up close. So how would they know about a minor piece of software on a less-then-linux marketshare platform? Webdevelopers not knowing about safari would indeed be silly. But generic IT people? i don't think so. “People not knowing that Safari is a web browser.”

That’s a bit elitist. In NL, 99% of IT = Microsoft, and lots of IT people have never seen a mac up close. So how would they know about a minor piece of software on a less-then-linux marketshare platform?

Webdevelopers not knowing about safari would indeed be silly. But generic IT people? i don’t think so.

]]> By: Jules http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64271 Jules Mon, 28 May 2007 12:19:02 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/2007/05/28/beware-of-these-people-working-with-it/#comment-64271 People who don't know where the any key is. (sorry, couldn't help it) :-) People who don’t know where the any key is.

(sorry, couldn’t help it) :-)

]]>