Yes, that is at least the way I see it.

Cool, then we agree.

Personally, I believe it takes small means to make a lot of currently JavaScript-dependant features on many web sites today accessible without JavaScript.

That’s absolutely right. When I wrote about target-audience I did not mean that one has to depend on JS wantonly.

Well, then we disagree abotu legislation for private business. I hope it won’t become necessary, and if it does, I really wonder how the laws will be balanced…

Chris,

…but also the designers and conceptionists.

I agree, that’s why I’ve always wanted the interface developer to become involved in the process as early as possible to have such discussions with the designers and concept makers. However, in the end, I do belive it mostly comes down to what way one chooses to implement a design or certain features.

Chris, Marco,

Well, that’s the question, isn’t it? Where do we draw the line, does everyting have to be accessible in some way with JavaScript disabled?

Personally, I believe it takes small means to make a lot of currently JavaScript-dependant features on many web sites today accessible without JavaScript.

But also, I definitely agree that there are web sites/web-based applications that are just too complex, where there’s no way to mimick the experience in a good way for non-JavaScript users; for instance, web applications like Web operating systems.

In the end, I think it’s all about functionality, target audience and what one wants to achieve.

Joe,

I missed your post about that; valid points. I agree that not all features on a web site will have to work with JavaScript. However, in Flickr’s case one should get a message in the slideshow page or alternatively not be able to get there.

Just a black rectangle doesn’t cut it for me.

Jeroen,

I’m glad that you share my point of view.

I also agree about Flickr and Google Maps: a fallback in those cases wouldn’t be that hard.

Jules,

Absolutely, valid point.

I share your views regarding legislation for commercial companies and private institutions. If it’s not part of their original case, then it would be unfair to force them to comply to the extreme. However, because the government needs to serve every citizen, I do think it is important that the government is forced to pay attention to it.

Just having read Joe Clark’s comment — I find it odd that such cases pass. Looking at the Flickr and Google examples, how hard is it to be provide a proper fallback to the visitor helping them to get back on the road? Surely it doesn’t mean that optional functionality is any less important in terms of accessibility? While optional functionality do not directly contribute to a visitor’s primary goals, I find it rather rude that they’re allowed to fail so badly.

I for one believe it’s fine to require JS in advanced web applications. It doesn’t mean we should use shitty code in them of course

@Devils Advocate:
This is only one point. Two good points about valid markup and unobstrusive js are:
- the code is easier to write, read and re-design
- the code is lighter. Bandwidth costs money, slow sites cost users.
I think there are more …

Why should we really bother with a minimal amount of people that have javascript disabled?

I mean: We need a WEB BROWSER to access a website, right? No one is whining about this requirement. Then why is it a problem to require Javascript? It’s not like Flickr for the blind would be very useful now is it?

A friendly request to enable javascript in a noscript block would be nice though.

The whole ‘everything must work, even with ancient browsers with no CSS and no JS’ movement is lovely but I can perfectly understand companies that decide not to bother with the tiny percentage of users who don’t have it.

If accessibility is a requirement I (and many web developers) have no problem making it happen but quite often it’s hard or even impossible (think complex AJAX apps). Thing is, I just fail to see the requirement for sites like Flickr and Google Maps. For a government information site, sure thing. EVERYONE must be able to access that information. But Flickr? Google Maps? Nah….

I increasingly believe our only hope besides legislation is the mobile revolution - the business case for being accessible via 3G mobile phone or PDA may in the near future do more for accessibility than any organisation or legislation could hope to achieve.