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	<title>Comments on: AJAX, JavaScript and accessibility</title>
	<atom:link href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/</link>
	<description>Web development and Internet trends</description>
	<pubDate>Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:38:52 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1</generator>
		<item>
		<title>By: What are Web Standards? A comprehensive explanation of what is comprised in the term - Robert&#8217;s talk</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-62241</link>
		<dc:creator>What are Web Standards? A comprehensive explanation of what is comprised in the term - Robert&#8217;s talk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 21 May 2007 13:22:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-62241</guid>
		<description>[...] AJAX, JavaScript and accessibility [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>, JavaScript and accessibility [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: The answers to the &#8220;Looking for a good interface developer?&#8221; questions - Robert&#8217;s talk</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-12696</link>
		<dc:creator>The answers to the &#8220;Looking for a good interface developer?&#8221; questions - Robert&#8217;s talk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 17 Oct 2006 18:39:53 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-12696</guid>
		<description>[...] th it is, in my eyes, not complete. A couple of links explaining it more thoroughly:       AJAX, JavaScript and accessibility     Unobtrusive Javascript 					 				 [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] th it is, in my eyes, not complete. A couple of links explaining it more thoroughly:       <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>, JavaScript and accessibility     Unobtrusive Javascript 					 				 [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Supporting the blind - Accessible AJAX with unobtrusive Javascript  - Unsought Input</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-9094</link>
		<dc:creator>Supporting the blind - Accessible AJAX with unobtrusive Javascript  - Unsought Input</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 12 Sep 2006 22:38:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-9094</guid>
		<description>[...] find tips arranged by specific disability. Accessible Javascript and AJAX  AJAX, JavaScript and accessibility from Robert&#8217;s Talk.  This is a  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] find tips arranged by specific disability. Accessible Javascript and <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>  <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>, JavaScript and accessibility from Robert&#8217;s Talk.  This is a  [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Event handling in JavaScript - an alternative addEvent solution - Robert&#8217;s talk</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-7886</link>
		<dc:creator>Event handling in JavaScript - an alternative addEvent solution - Robert&#8217;s talk</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Aug 2006 10:00:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-7886</guid>
		<description>[...] velopers, and countless of people have made their stab of solving it. When I wrote my post AJAX, JavaScript and accessibility some commenters were asking for a fol [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] velopers, and countless of people have made their stab of solving it. When I wrote my post <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>, JavaScript and accessibility some commenters were asking for a fol [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: FACTA ET VERBA &#187; recursos y mas recursos AJAX</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-6003</link>
		<dc:creator>FACTA ET VERBA &#187; recursos y mas recursos AJAX</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Jul 2006 14:08:58 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-6003</guid>
		<description>[...]  what you will). It is basically the principle of unobtrusive JavaScript applied to Ajax.  AJAX, JavaScript and accessibilit [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  what you will). It is basically the principle of unobtrusive JavaScript applied to <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>.  <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym>, JavaScript and accessibilit [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-5293</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 11:14:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-5293</guid>
		<description>Matt,

There's isn't any autoplay mode, but instead more like a regular PowerPoint slideshow. If you only want to have a slideshow of images, maybe &lt;a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/04/12/jas-like-your-own-mini-flickr/" rel="nofollow"&gt;JaS&lt;/a&gt; is a better alternative for you.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Matt,</p>
<p>There&#8217;s isn&#8217;t any autoplay mode, but instead more like a regular PowerPoint slideshow. If you only want to have a slideshow of images, maybe <a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/04/12/jas-like-your-own-mini-flickr/" rel="nofollow">JaS</a> is a better alternative for you.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Matt Asquith</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-5287</link>
		<dc:creator>Matt Asquith</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 05 Jun 2006 06:33:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-5287</guid>
		<description>Can you please tell me how to start the slideshow onLoad? (ie automaticall start the slideshow on page load).

Thanks!
M</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Can you please tell me how to start the slideshow onLoad? (<acronym title="Internet Explorer">IE</acronym> automaticall start the slideshow on page load).</p>
<p>Thanks!<br />
M</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert&#8217;s talk &#187; An important lesson learned about AJAX and accessibility</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-4279</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert&#8217;s talk &#187; An important lesson learned about AJAX and accessibility</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 25 Apr 2006 09:13:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-4279</guid>
		<description>[...] AJAX apps, make sure that it works without JavaScript as well, apply all the scripts in an unobtrusive fashion. I&#8217;m just glad that ASK passed the test with i [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> apps, make sure that it works without JavaScript as well, apply all the scripts in an unobtrusive fashion. I&#8217;m just glad that ASK passed the test with i [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert&#8217;s talk &#187; Accessibility is so &#8216;05</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-4092</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert&#8217;s talk &#187; Accessibility is so &#8216;05</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 19 Apr 2006 09:34:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-4092</guid>
		<description>[...]  or stray from conventions just to spite.  If you write valid and semantic markup, and add JavaScript in an unobtrusive fashion, your web site has come a long way  [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...]  or stray from conventions just to spite.  If you write valid and semantic markup, and add JavaScript in an unobtrusive fashion, your web site has come a long way  [...]</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: otro blog más &#187; Unos cuantos de desarrollo web (LXXXV)</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-4039</link>
		<dc:creator>otro blog más &#187; Unos cuantos de desarrollo web (LXXXV)</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 14 Apr 2006 18:39:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-4039</guid>
		<description>[...] lioteca para facilitar el desarrollo: Backbase AJAX Library. Y, finalmente, accesibilidad: sob [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] lioteca para facilitar el desarrollo: Backbase <acronym title="Asynchronous Javascript and XML">AJAX</acronym> Library. Y, finalmente, accesibilidad: sob [...]</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3793</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 30 Mar 2006 08:36:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3793</guid>
		<description>Martin.

Well, the example above is very simple but in most, of not every, scenario you will have a lot of script in the page. To me a function call is still interaction, no matter how small. If it only had been one link, then you would naturally use &lt;code&gt;getElementById&lt;/code&gt; instead.

In the end, to me it's about doing things properly all the time. If one gets used to bad practices, they just tend to stick around for too long... :-&#124;

And thanks for liking the example! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin.</p>
<p>Well, the example above is very simple but in most, of not every, scenario you will have a lot of script in the page. To me a function call is still interaction, no matter how small. If it only had been one link, then you would naturally use <code>getElementById</code> instead.</p>
<p>In the end, to me it&#8217;s about doing things properly all the time. If one gets used to bad practices, they just tend to stick around for too long&#8230; <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_neutral.gif' alt=':-|' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>And thanks for liking the example! <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin Kliehm</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3779</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Kliehm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 17:16:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3779</guid>
		<description>After talking to a colleague I can see a few scenarios where your method is more convenient. There were cases where I added events using JavaScript just like you proposed rather then writing several lines of &lt;code&gt;onmouseover="doSomething()" onmouseout="doSomethingElse()" onfocus="doSomething()" onblur="doSomethingElse()"&lt;/code&gt;, which can really get annoying.

By the way, I loved your example &lt;code&gt;pleaseTeachMeProperJavaScript()&lt;/code&gt;!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>After talking to a colleague I can see a few scenarios where your method is more convenient. There were cases where I added events using JavaScript just like you proposed rather then writing several lines of <code>onmouseover="doSomething()" onmouseout="doSomethingElse()" onfocus="doSomething()" onblur="doSomethingElse()"</code>, which can really get annoying.</p>
<p>By the way, I loved your example <code>pleaseTeachMeProperJavaScript()</code>!</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin Kliehm</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3778</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Kliehm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 16:47:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3778</guid>
		<description>Hm, in my opinion it&#8217;s just a function call, it&#8217;s no fancy JavaScript. I agree on utmost separation of view and control, but this seems a bit radical even for me. If the W3C gods hadn&#8217;t intended us to use events, they wouldn&#8217;t have included them in XHTML. ;)

Second it&#8217;s just a few bytes to download &#8211; for example, you don't take processing power for the JavaScript loop into account either. Both is just neglectable.

I can understand your third reason, but again it&#8217;s just a function call. And it&#8217;s very simple (as opposed to DOM tree walking) and generic, so I can&#8217;t see much reason for change either. For anything more complicated I would use server-side includes to ease maintenance. After all, if you would really use this to show/hide layers, their location and maintenance (not to mention accessibility) would require a good concept anyway.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hm, in my opinion it&rsquo;s just a function call, it&rsquo;s no fancy JavaScript. I agree on utmost separation of view and control, but this seems a bit radical even for me. If the <acronym title="World Wide Web Consortium">W3C</acronym> gods hadn&rsquo;t intended us to use events, they wouldn&rsquo;t have included them in <acronym title="eXtensible HyperText Markup Language - HTML reformulated as XML">XHTML</acronym>. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Second it&rsquo;s just a few bytes to download &ndash; for example, you don&#8217;t take processing power for the JavaScript loop into account either. Both is just neglectable.</p>
<p>I can understand your third reason, but again it&rsquo;s just a function call. And it&rsquo;s very simple (as opposed to <acronym title="Document Object Model">DOM</acronym> tree walking) and generic, so I can&rsquo;t see much reason for change either. For anything more complicated I would use server-side includes to ease maintenance. After all, if you would really use this to show/hide layers, their location and maintenance (not to mention accessibility) would require a good concept anyway.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3767</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 11:54:50 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3767</guid>
		<description>Martin,

To begin with, the whole point is to separate content (HTML) from interaction (JavaScript); they should never be mixed together. 

Second, with inline event handlers, they have to be downloaded by the web browsers all the time, as opposed to a JavaScript file that gets cached after it has been retrieved the first time.

Third, it's about maintenance. If you have several web pages with different interaction you want one central place to control it, as opposed to having to go into each element in evey page to adjust things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Martin,</p>
<p>To begin with, the whole point is to separate content (<acronym title="HyperText Markup Language">HTML</acronym>) from interaction (JavaScript); they should never be mixed together. </p>
<p>Second, with inline event handlers, they have to be downloaded by the web browsers all the time, as opposed to a JavaScript file that gets cached after it has been retrieved the first time.</p>
<p>Third, it&#8217;s about maintenance. If you have several web pages with different interaction you want one central place to control it, as opposed to having to go into each element in evey page to adjust things.</p>
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	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Martin Kliehm</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3763</link>
		<dc:creator>Martin Kliehm</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 29 Mar 2006 10:58:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3763</guid>
		<description>I don't get why you need to create an event &lt;code&gt;onload&lt;/code&gt; with a rather complicated JavaScript function, when you could have something as simple as:

&lt;code&gt;&#60;a href="my-details.php" &lt;strong&gt;onclick="showInfoLayer(); return false;"&lt;/strong&gt;&#62; My details&#60;/a&#62;&lt;/code&gt;

It won't mess with the link either when JavaScript is turned off. Or do I miss some important argument?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t get why you need to create an event <code>onload</code> with a rather complicated JavaScript function, when you could have something as simple as:</p>
<p><code>&lt;a href="my-details.php" <strong>onclick=&#8221;showInfoLayer(); return false;&#8221;</strong>&gt; My details&lt;/a&gt;</code></p>
<p>It won&#8217;t mess with the link either when JavaScript is turned off. Or do I miss some important argument?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3721</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Mar 2006 07:30:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3721</guid>
		<description>Chris, Steve,

I'm happy to abide! :-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Chris, Steve,</p>
<p>I&#8217;m happy to abide! <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Steve Williams</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3713</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Williams</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 23:36:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3713</guid>
		<description>Thanks Robert, the mist is starting to clear... :)
Looking forward to the follow-up!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Robert, the mist is starting to clear&#8230; <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /><br />
Looking forward to the follow-up!</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Chris</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3709</link>
		<dc:creator>Chris</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Mar 2006 11:56:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3709</guid>
		<description>Robert, thanks for this nice article. In english ;-)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert, thanks for this nice article. In english <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Robert Nyman</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3699</link>
		<dc:creator>Robert Nyman</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Mar 2006 10:22:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3699</guid>
		<description>Stuart,

Thank you!

Yes, event handling sounds like a good idea for a part 2, but I wanted to keep this as simple as possible.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Stuart,</p>
<p>Thank you!</p>
<p>Yes, event handling sounds like a good idea for a part 2, but I wanted to keep this as simple as possible.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stuart</title>
		<link>http://www.robertnyman.com/2006/03/23/ajax-javascript-and-accessibility/#comment-3698</link>
		<dc:creator>Stuart</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 24 Mar 2006 09:46:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=314#comment-3698</guid>
		<description>Robert:  Good stuff here, it reminds me to start teaching everyone I work with to stop using the inline event handlers. One benefit of this approach is it also makes it easier to build up your own collection of useful scripts that can just be dropped into a page.

I guess that's good advice too for anyone that already knows this stuff. Make it your mission to help a fellow developer use javascript properly if they don't already know.

I think maybe you &lt;em&gt;could&lt;/em&gt; have mentioned the use of  an addevent function as in the real world it's going to be common that you need to make use of more than one onload event. Alternatively an easily digestible explanation of the purpose of addevent functions could be part 2. :)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Robert:  Good stuff here, it reminds me to start teaching everyone I work with to stop using the inline event handlers. One benefit of this approach is it also makes it easier to build up your own collection of useful scripts that can just be dropped into a page.</p>
<p>I guess that&#8217;s good advice too for anyone that already knows this stuff. Make it your mission to help a fellow developer use javascript properly if they don&#8217;t already know.</p>
<p>I think maybe you <em>could</em> have mentioned the use of  an addevent function as in the real world it&#8217;s going to be common that you need to make use of more than one onload event. Alternatively an easily digestible explanation of the purpose of addevent functions could be part 2. <img src='http://www.robertnyman.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_smile.gif' alt=':)' class='wp-smiley' /></p>
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