Comments on: clear:left; a superstar company http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/ Web development and Internet trends Mon, 08 Sep 2008 07:26:06 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.1 By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1085 Robert Nyman Fri, 23 Sep 2005 14:47:15 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1085 Marco, Definitely, money talks. And Search Engine Optimization is a very important argument. Marco,

Definitely, money talks. And Search Engine Optimization is a very important argument.

]]> By: Marco http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1083 Marco Fri, 23 Sep 2005 13:58:25 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1083 It's a tough challenge to 'sell' web standards but I do believe there's one important argument that can actually convince people: search engine optimization. If you work with web standards you'll see your get indexed much better than with old-school crappy code. It may look the same to people but the difference is striking. I'm often amazed by how well content from blogs is indexed compared to a lot of commercial sites. Even though arguments such as lean code, better accessibility and better maintainability should be more important, the SEO argument will have more appeal to the corporate world... ;) It’s a tough challenge to ’sell’ web standards but I do believe there’s one important argument that can actually convince people: search engine optimization. If you work with web standards you’ll see your get indexed much better than with old-school crappy code. It may look the same to people but the difference is striking. I’m often amazed by how well content from blogs is indexed compared to a lot of commercial sites. Even though arguments such as lean code, better accessibility and better maintainability should be more important, the SEO argument will have more appeal to the corporate world… ;)

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1081 Robert Nyman Fri, 23 Sep 2005 12:14:54 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1081 Marco, I feel your pain. And that's a very common situation that we so-called <i>standardistas</i> are trying to change, to raise the awareness of all the issues out there and how they should be handled. But very often I do share your frustration, and I wrote <a href="http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/13/why-do-we-have-to-fight/" rel="nofollow">Why do we have to fight?</a> to express my occasional feeling of helplessnes. Marco,

I feel your pain. And that’s a very common situation that we so-called standardistas are trying to change, to raise the awareness of all the issues out there and how they should be handled.

But very often I do share your frustration, and I wrote Why do we have to fight? to express my occasional feeling of helplessnes.

]]> By: Marco http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1080 Marco Fri, 23 Sep 2005 11:42:15 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1080 Robert, the arguments are all true and even marketing / management people should be able to understand the advantages of web standards. But still I feel like some sort of Don Quichotte in the professional environment I'm in. Even many experienced developers around me don't seem to care about the standards movement at all while they're otherwise really skilled and experienced in what they do. Most designers I've met in the Netherlands can't even do HTML, they just present you with a Photoshop document (if you're really lucky they sliced and layered it correctly) and leave the rest to you. While designing they never thought about web standards for a single second because they don't even know normal HTML. So here I am, surrounded by designers who work like they're designing a book-cover and developers who make statements like 'yeah... tables. it works fine so what are you whining about?'. In terms of standards we really are lagging behind horribly... Robert, the arguments are all true and even marketing / management people should be able to understand the advantages of web standards. But still I feel like some sort of Don Quichotte in the professional environment I’m in. Even many experienced developers around me don’t seem to care about the standards movement at all while they’re otherwise really skilled and experienced in what they do. Most designers I’ve met in the Netherlands can’t even do HTML, they just present you with a Photoshop document (if you’re really lucky they sliced and layered it correctly) and leave the rest to you. While designing they never thought about web standards for a single second because they don’t even know normal HTML.

So here I am, surrounded by designers who work like they’re designing a book-cover and developers who make statements like ‘yeah… tables. it works fine so what are you whining about?’.

In terms of standards we really are lagging behind horribly…

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1079 Robert Nyman Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:24:48 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1079 Mats, Well, what can I say? Good luck! :-) Mats,

Well, what can I say? Good luck! :-)

]]> By: Mats http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1078 Mats Fri, 23 Sep 2005 09:16:26 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1078 Well Robert, it's that attitude that's gonna make me rich! If everone shies away from doing it I can move in and grab the cash! And try to make the web a better place in the process. It helps that I have been doing the same thing for some five years now, digging through ASP, JSP, XSL, PHP and JAVA is a messy job but if you pay me enough i'll put my goggles on and grab the keyboard. :D Well Robert, it’s that attitude that’s gonna make me rich! If everone shies away from doing it I can move in and grab the cash! And try to make the web a better place in the process.

It helps that I have been doing the same thing for some five years now, digging through ASP, JSP, XSL, PHP and JAVA is a messy job but if you pay me enough i’ll put my goggles on and grab the keyboard. :D

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1075 Robert Nyman Fri, 23 Sep 2005 06:47:38 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1075 Marco, That doesn't sound too encouraging. Usually the arguments for selling web standards are that the web site will be more accessible, it will be addressing bandwidth issues by decreasing the amount of data that have to be sent by relying on a stylesheet-based design, getting higher search engine ranking by correct semantic code and so on. All in all, this will save/make your customers money and a good reason for hiring someone that writes correct code. Marco,

That doesn’t sound too encouraging.

Usually the arguments for selling web standards are that the web site will be more accessible, it will be addressing bandwidth issues by decreasing the amount of data that have to be sent by relying on a stylesheet-based design, getting higher search engine ranking by correct semantic code and so on.

All in all, this will save/make your customers money and a good reason for hiring someone that writes correct code.

]]> By: Marco http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1074 Marco Thu, 22 Sep 2005 22:26:40 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1074 I don't know about the UK or other european countries but in the Netherlands 99% of all potential clients don't seem to give a rats ass about webstandards. Worse even, they don't care about good design and they don't care about any browser besides MSIE. You won't believe what kind of garbage many Dutch companies produce. Code that will make you wet your pants and designs that you wouldn't even have liked back in 1993. There are exceptions but most of the great Dutch sites are by bloggers that love webstandards, not web development companies. I want to start freelance soon as well but I'm afraid I might have a real hard time selling web standards compliant and well-designed sites. Why? Because it's not at all a 'selling point'. People just don't care. But..... I'll sure as hell try though! I don’t know about the UK or other european countries but in the Netherlands 99% of all potential clients don’t seem to give a rats ass about webstandards. Worse even, they don’t care about good design and they don’t care about any browser besides MSIE. You won’t believe what kind of garbage many Dutch companies produce. Code that will make you wet your pants and designs that you wouldn’t even have liked back in 1993. There are exceptions but most of the great Dutch sites are by bloggers that love webstandards, not web development companies.

I want to start freelance soon as well but I’m afraid I might have a real hard time selling web standards compliant and well-designed sites. Why? Because it’s not at all a ’selling point’. People just don’t care. But….. I’ll sure as hell try though!

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1073 Robert Nyman Thu, 22 Sep 2005 18:19:29 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1073 Mats, I guess also that since the IT climate has been cold for many years have held people back. But now things are starting to look bright again! Helping people to clean up their web sites is something I shy away from as much as possible! :-) Mats,

I guess also that since the IT climate has been cold for many years have held people back. But now things are starting to look bright again!

Helping people to clean up their web sites is something I shy away from as much as possible! :-)

]]> By: Mats http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1072 Mats Thu, 22 Sep 2005 15:03:43 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1072 I was actually thinking of starting my own buisness and focus on webstandards, accessibility an usability. My problem is that i'm no good as a graphic designer. More focus on code and helping people clean up their existing sites. :) I was actually thinking of starting my own buisness and focus on webstandards, accessibility an usability. My problem is that i’m no good as a graphic designer.

More focus on code and helping people clean up their existing sites.
:)

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1071 Robert Nyman Thu, 22 Sep 2005 14:23:56 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1071 Mark, I think that's a pretty common assumption. But as Richard stated above, supposedly they're not over-expensive. Mark,

I think that’s a pretty common assumption. But as Richard stated above, supposedly they’re not over-expensive.

]]> By: Mark Priestap http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1070 Mark Priestap Thu, 22 Sep 2005 13:02:30 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1070 I'm probably shooting myself in the foot here, but I've heard that a lot of these web superstar companies have trouble making money because everyone assumes they're too expensive when they're actually not any more expensive than a normal company. I’m probably shooting myself in the foot here, but I’ve heard that a lot of these web superstar companies have trouble making money because everyone assumes they’re too expensive when they’re actually not any more expensive than a normal company.

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1069 Robert Nyman Thu, 22 Sep 2005 11:23:38 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1069 Kalle, You're probably right. Although with more and more focus on accessibility, and other web browsers that are stricter in their interpretation than Internet Explorer gaining more market share, this will lead to a demand for stricter and correct code. So maybe that's an opening? :-) Kalle,

You’re probably right. Although with more and more focus on accessibility, and other web browsers that are stricter in their interpretation than Internet Explorer gaining more market share, this will lead to a demand for stricter and correct code.

So maybe that’s an opening? :-)

]]> By: Kalle Wibeck http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1068 Kalle Wibeck Thu, 22 Sep 2005 10:41:38 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1068 Of course there could be a Swedish company with the big namnes in webdeveloping. The question is if clients will gather around though... Cause, as you have stated here before, it truly is a struggle to get people to understand the true values of a well built website... ;) Of course there could be a Swedish company with the big namnes in webdeveloping.
The question is if clients will gather around though… Cause, as you have stated here before, it truly is a struggle to get people to understand the true values of a well built website… ;)

]]> By: Steve Williams http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1067 Steve Williams Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:15:06 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1067 Damn, more competition... says x-factor entrant staring at Robbie Williams ;) Looking forward to seeing some collaborative work from these guys... Damn, more competition… says x-factor entrant staring at Robbie Williams ;)

Looking forward to seeing some collaborative work from these guys…

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1066 Robert Nyman Thu, 22 Sep 2005 09:01:49 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1066 Richard, Good to see you here! And if you're not <em>that</em> expensive, maybe I should persuade you to come to Stockholm and work on some projects with me... :-) Good luck! Richard,

Good to see you here!

And if you’re not that expensive, maybe I should persuade you to come to Stockholm and work on some projects with me… :-)

Good luck!

]]> By: Richard Rutter http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1064 Richard Rutter Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:58:55 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1064 Thanks for the kind words, Robert. We're really excited to have combined our skills and resources to set up Clearleft. And while we're not just another design shop, we might not be as expensive as you may think :-) Thanks for the kind words, Robert. We’re really excited to have combined our skills and resources to set up Clearleft. And while we’re not just another design shop, we might not be as expensive as you may think :-)

]]> By: Robert Nyman http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1062 Robert Nyman Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:38:19 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1062 JaX, Thanks! And yes, Andy Budd knows what he's doing, so to say. :-) JaX,

Thanks!

And yes, Andy Budd knows what he’s doing, so to say. :-)

]]> By: JaX http://www.robertnyman.com/2005/09/22/clearleft-a-superstar-company/#comment-1061 JaX Thu, 22 Sep 2005 08:22:25 +0000 http://www.robertnyman.com/?p=189#comment-1061 Hey man, I like your blog. Keep up the great work =) Clear:Left's logo is sooo smooth. Andy Budd is a living legend. Hey man, I like your blog. Keep up the great work =)

Clear:Left’s logo is sooo smooth. Andy Budd is a living legend.

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